APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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Chris Peterson
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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:22 pm

EmanueleBalboni wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:03 pm
nikkam wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:29 am I live in Turin (Torino) where Superga's Basilica is; only one who does not live in Turin can be supposed to think that this shot is true; it's only a tremendous fake.
I also live in Turin, and not knowing the place from which you can see the alignment does not allow you to say this shot is fake. Listen my advice: take a walk/ride/drive towards Castagneto Po in a beautiful day and see for yourself :ssmile:
There are dozens of images online that show exactly this perspective, with just the Moon missing. This is clearly a "standard tourist shot" of the basilica!
Chris

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Liviux

Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Liviux » Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:32 am

I don't know the area much, but I think the photo was taken somewhere near Castiglione Torinese:
Image
As you can see, not only the distance to Monviso is over 70 km, but the line of sight is above Turin. The city lights are probably contributing to the sky color much more than the twilight.

Liviux

Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Liviux » Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:34 am

That said, I want to add my congratulations to Giacomo Venturini for this exceptional and much evocative picture.
Bravissimo!

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by nikkam » Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am

EmanueleBalboni wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:03 pm
nikkam wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:29 am I live in Turin (Torino) where Superga's Basilica is; only one who does not live in Turin can be supposed to think that this shot is true; it's only a tremendous fake.
I also live in Turin, and not knowing the place from which you can see the alignment does not allow you to say this shot is fake. Listen my advice: take a walk/ride/drive towards Castagneto Po in a beautiful day and see for yourself :ssmile:
Visto che sei di Torino te lo spiego in italiano; io ho vissuto per anni in pieno centro con vista su Superga; decine di volte ho visto la Luna sorgere da dietro la Basilica, la luna come si sa ha estensione di circa 30' ed è più piccola della Basilica, entrambi questi oggetti sono 'fermi', cioè a uguale distanza sempre. Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Since you're from Turin, I'll explain it to you in Italian; I lived for years in the center with a view of Superga; dozens of times I have seen the Moon rise from behind the Basilica, the moon as we know has an extension of about 30' and is smaller than the Basilica, both of these objects are 'stationary', that is, always at the same distance. No lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by eaglekepr » Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:47 am

The photographer states he used a telephoto 500mm lens and has also posted a video clip on his Facebook post showing the camera as it was taking the image. It all appears consistent with the photo.

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:28 pm

Liviux wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:32 am I don't know the area much, but I think the photo was taken somewhere near Castiglione Torinese:
Image
As you can see, not only the distance to Monviso is over 70 km, but the line of sight is above Turin. The city lights are probably contributing to the sky color much more than the twilight.
I'd put it further away. The basilica and the Moon subtend about the same angle, and the basilica width is about 100 meters. That would place the photographer about 11km from the basilica, which looks to be near a small village, Raccone.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:31 pm

nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am
EmanueleBalboni wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:03 pm
nikkam wrote: Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:29 am I live in Turin (Torino) where Superga's Basilica is; only one who does not live in Turin can be supposed to think that this shot is true; it's only a tremendous fake.
I also live in Turin, and not knowing the place from which you can see the alignment does not allow you to say this shot is fake. Listen my advice: take a walk/ride/drive towards Castagneto Po in a beautiful day and see for yourself :ssmile:
Visto che sei di Torino te lo spiego in italiano; io ho vissuto per anni in pieno centro con vista su Superga; decine di volte ho visto la Luna sorgere da dietro la Basilica, la luna come si sa ha estensione di circa 30' ed è più piccola della Basilica, entrambi questi oggetti sono 'fermi', cioè a uguale distanza sempre. Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Since you're from Turin, I'll explain it to you in Italian; I lived for years in the center with a view of Superga; dozens of times I have seen the Moon rise from behind the Basilica, the moon as we know has an extension of about 30' and is smaller than the Basilica, both of these objects are 'stationary', that is, always at the same distance. No lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.
The Moon and the basilica each subtend about a half degree, which is consistent with the camera being 82 km from the peak and 11 km from the basilica. Which would make everything in focus with any ordinary camera lens, and give exactly the geometry we see here. Nothing is "magnified", a term that doesn't even have any meaning in this context.
Chris

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by EmanueleBalboni » Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:53 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:31 pm
nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am
EmanueleBalboni wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:03 pm
I also live in Turin, and not knowing the place from which you can see the alignment does not allow you to say this shot is fake. Listen my advice: take a walk/ride/drive towards Castagneto Po in a beautiful day and see for yourself :ssmile:
Visto che sei di Torino te lo spiego in italiano; io ho vissuto per anni in pieno centro con vista su Superga; decine di volte ho visto la Luna sorgere da dietro la Basilica, la luna come si sa ha estensione di circa 30' ed è più piccola della Basilica, entrambi questi oggetti sono 'fermi', cioè a uguale distanza sempre. Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Since you're from Turin, I'll explain it to you in Italian; I lived for years in the center with a view of Superga; dozens of times I have seen the Moon rise from behind the Basilica, the moon as we know has an extension of about 30' and is smaller than the Basilica, both of these objects are 'stationary', that is, always at the same distance. No lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.
The Moon and the basilica each subtend about a half degree, which is consistent with the camera being 82 km from the peak and 11 km from the basilica. Which would make everything in focus with any ordinary camera lens, and give exactly the geometry we see here. Nothing is "magnified", a term that doesn't even have any meaning in this context.
Let me be crystal clear: I'm an astrophyscist and a photographer; I've been there several times and took pictures of the Mount Viso, Superga and the Moon (I also posted some of the results here):
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... erga-2.jpg[/img3]

Here there are two screenshots taken from PlanIt app, showing the alignment:
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
To have the Moon larger than Superga you simply have to move further from the basilica: Superga will appear smaller, while the Moon will be still the half degree you correctly wrote.

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:53 pm

EmanueleBalboni wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:53 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:31 pm
nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am

Visto che sei di Torino te lo spiego in italiano; io ho vissuto per anni in pieno centro con vista su Superga; decine di volte ho visto la Luna sorgere da dietro la Basilica, la luna come si sa ha estensione di circa 30' ed è più piccola della Basilica, entrambi questi oggetti sono 'fermi', cioè a uguale distanza sempre. Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Since you're from Turin, I'll explain it to you in Italian; I lived for years in the center with a view of Superga; dozens of times I have seen the Moon rise from behind the Basilica, the moon as we know has an extension of about 30' and is smaller than the Basilica, both of these objects are 'stationary', that is, always at the same distance. No lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.
The Moon and the basilica each subtend about a half degree, which is consistent with the camera being 82 km from the peak and 11 km from the basilica. Which would make everything in focus with any ordinary camera lens, and give exactly the geometry we see here. Nothing is "magnified", a term that doesn't even have any meaning in this context.
Let me be crystal clear: I'm an astrophyscist and a photographer; I've been there several times and took pictures of the Mount Viso, Superga and the Moon (I also posted some of the results here):
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... erga-2.jpg[/img3]

Here there are two screenshots taken from PlanIt app, showing the alignment:
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
To have the Moon larger than Superga you simply have to move further from the basilica: Superga will appear smaller, while the Moon will be still the half degree you correctly wrote.
I'm neither an astrophysicist nor a photographer 😊, but comparing overlayed cutouts of the moon, mountain and basilica from your video to the APOD photo seems like a pretty close matchup to me:

moon mountain basilica.jpg
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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Rauf » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:29 pm

Liviux wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:34 am That said, I want to add my congratulations to Giacomo Venturini for this exceptional and much evocative picture.
Bravissimo!
The picture's photographer is actually Valerio Minato.

Guest

Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Guest » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:30 pm

nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Invece è possibilissimo, praticamente con qualunque lente. Evidentemente non conosci il concetto di "distanza iperfocale": https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distanza_iperfocale
Ad esempio: con una lente da 500mm di lunghezza focale, diaframma f/8, mettendo a fuoco a 1km di distanza risulta a fuoco tutto ciò che si trova fra 500m e l'infinito.

A margine, non capisco la necessità di mettere così aggressivamente in dubbio i risultati eccellenti raggiunti da qualcun altro, anziché congratularsene.
nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 amNo lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.
Actually, it is possible with almost any lens. You obviously do not know the concept of 'hyperfocal distance': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance
For example: with a 500mm focal length lens, f/8 diaphragm, focusing at a distance of 1km results in everything between 500m and infinity being in focus.

Liviux

Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by Liviux » Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:37 pm

Rauf wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:29 pm
Liviux wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:34 am That said, I want to add my congratulations to Giacomo Venturini for this exceptional and much evocative picture.
Bravissimo!
The picture's photographer is actually Valerio Minato.
Sorry, I got confused with today's photo author, who also deserves sincere congratulations.
While I'm at it, I wish to congratulate Emanuele Balboni, too, for his different vision of this remarkable alignment.

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Re: APOD: Cathedral, Mountain, Moon (2023 Dec 25)

Post by EmanueleBalboni » Tue Jan 02, 2024 4:40 pm

EmanueleBalboni wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:53 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 3:31 pm
nikkam wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:00 am

Visto che sei di Torino te lo spiego in italiano; io ho vissuto per anni in pieno centro con vista su Superga; decine di volte ho visto la Luna sorgere da dietro la Basilica, la luna come si sa ha estensione di circa 30' ed è più piccola della Basilica, entrambi questi oggetti sono 'fermi', cioè a uguale distanza sempre. Nessun obiettivo al mondo può mettere a fuoco contemporneamente la Basilica, a pochi km di distanza, il Monviso (3600 mt, ingrandito almeno 10x) che si trova a 64 km. da Torino, e luna ingrandita almeno 10x che si trova a 370.000 km di distanza. E' un fotomontaggio persino ridicolo a cui può credere solo chi non conosce il Piemonte, o non conosce la fotografia, o non conosce la geometria.
Since you're from Turin, I'll explain it to you in Italian; I lived for years in the center with a view of Superga; dozens of times I have seen the Moon rise from behind the Basilica, the moon as we know has an extension of about 30' and is smaller than the Basilica, both of these objects are 'stationary', that is, always at the same distance. No lens in the world can simultaneously focus on the Basilica, a few km away, and Monviso (3600 m, enlarged at least 10x) which is 64 km away. from Turin, and the moon magnified at least 10x which is 370,000 km away. It's an even ridiculous photomontage that only those who don't know Piedmont or don't know photography or don't know geometry can believe.
The Moon and the basilica each subtend about a half degree, which is consistent with the camera being 82 km from the peak and 11 km from the basilica. Which would make everything in focus with any ordinary camera lens, and give exactly the geometry we see here. Nothing is "magnified", a term that doesn't even have any meaning in this context.
Let me be crystal clear: I'm an astrophyscist and a photographer; I've been there several times and took pictures of the Mount Viso, Superga and the Moon (I also posted some of the results here):
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... erga-2.jpg[/img3]

Here there are two screenshots taken from PlanIt app, showing the alignment:
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
[img3]https://cosmoedintorni.org/wp-content/u ... c2023.jpeg[/img3]
To have the Moon larger than Superga you simply have to move further from the basilica: Superga will appear smaller, while the Moon will be still the half degree you correctly wrote.
I pasted the same link for the two screenshots, sorry. Here the correct one: