Astrological Climate Change

Off topic discourse and banter encouraged.
User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18035
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Astrological Climate Change

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:55 pm

South Dakota wants to require schools to teach children that climate change has astrological causes. Not to mention thermological and cosmological. All those logicals and so little logic!

South Dakota HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 1009
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by BMAONE23 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:05 pm

Gee Chris,
Doesn't this belong in the Astronomically Bad Jokes thread? :mrgreen:
It is in dire need of proof-reading and correction
Perhaps it was written by their local 4 th grade class

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 9180
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by geckzilla » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:06 pm

How many times can they rehash "It's just a theory, not a proven fact!" before someone goes postal?
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21570
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by bystander » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:35 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:It is in dire need of proof-reading and correction
Perhaps it was written by their local 4th grade class
Unfortunately, the text is demonstrative of verbiage on bills written at the state level, at least in Oklahoma. And to think, these are the people we choose to lead us, many of whom are lawyers. At the national level, the verbiage is little better, but then, they have staff writers.

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2702
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by rstevenson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:18 pm

Whenever I'm reading a document full of verbiage I like to try to parse it down to its essentials -- substitute a simple word for a compex phrase, that sort of thing. This one, parsed to the bare bones, says that teachers should be careful how they teach. Only lawyers have sufficient training to say something that simple incomprehensibly.

Rob

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21570
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by bystander » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:11 pm

If that was all they were saying, I might be able to overlook the grammar and idiotic mistakes (astrological :facepalm:), but they are saying CO2 is not a anthropogenic pollutant and is in fact beneficial. They also state other things as fact that are not any less theory than the AGW they are protesting. I'm not convinced one way or the other about mankind's influence on global warming, but the things the alarmist are calling for are things we should be doing anyway; reducing pollution, searching for renewable alternative energy sources, halting widespread destruction of natural habitats, and, in general, being better stewards of this Earth on which we have to live. I don't see what the problem is.

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2702
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by rstevenson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:25 pm

True, the WHERAS clauses contain silly statements, but that's not a problem. Those bits are just the stated excuse for writing the bill. Only the BE IT RESOLVED parts are important, since they become the law. And those parts are essentially statements of the blatantly obvious. Yes, we could quibble about them, and yes, somebody needs to do a little proof-reading, but they don't say anything objectionable, do they?

I will certainly agree that the apparent purpose of this bill is to denigrate science, particularly science as it is applied to global warming, but the bill has been emasculated (no doubt in committee) so it doesn't really manage to do any harm. Decades from now it will resurface (assuming it's passed at all) in some political science class and everyone will have a chuckle about the rubes who wrote it, and that will be that. (Perhaps it's my distance from these particular rubes -- though we have our own, no doubt -- that allows me to have this relaxed response to the bill.)

Rob

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by BMAONE23 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:15 pm

I do realize that there is a delicate balancing point for atmospheric CO2, but they are correct in stating that CO2 is beneficial to plant growth. Just remove it all and see how long plant life survives. Then as goes the plante so goes all other lifeforms.
I too have seen the admittedly fatally flawed experiments concerning raising CO2 levels in a bottle and thereby raising the biosphere's internal temperature. I say fatally flawed because the level of CO2 rise isn't checked at the PPM level. they are in fact producing elevated temperatures by raising CO2 levels to parts per hundred or possibly(likely) parts per ten.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18035
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by Chris Peterson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:37 pm

There are two issues. One is simply a matter of policy, and IMO it is bad policy when states start attempting to micromanage curriculum in this way. They are clearly singling out a very narrow subject (one that is only barely taught in public schools to begin with) for overtly political reasons. An additional clue is that the names attached to the bill overwhelmingly represent one party. You'd have to be pretty naive to believe that this bill is really about education.

However, the main reason I started this discussion was because of the appallingly bad wording- the use of "astrology" and the use of terms that make no sense- "thermology" (a kind of medical imaging) and "cosmology" (the study of the structure and formation of the Universe). The fact that a legislator could write something this bad, and that so many others would then attach their names to it, certainly makes me think that this group of people are the last ones that should be dictating educational standards!
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
Orca
Commander
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:58 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Astrological Climate Change

Post by Orca » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:59 pm

I think human-induced climate change is a difficult issue for many because, like Darwinian evolution, it is perceived to directly threaten ideological beliefs. I've heard other legislators complain that it's "impossible for humans to destroy the Earth, only God can do that." We all know the lengths many politicians go to muffle certain elements of science in education. I wonder, if they had stronger critical thinking skills and a deeper science background, would they would either rethink their position or just become more proficient in attacking science...

How many folks do you know that, on one hand, drive cars and use the internet and go to modern hospitals, while on the other claim science must be wrong when it contradicts fundamental elements of their belief system?