APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 14 (2021 Mar 17)

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APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 14 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by APOD Robot » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:05 am

Image The Surface of Venus from Venera 14

Explanation: If you could stand on Venus -- what would you see? Pictured is the view from Venera 14, a robotic Soviet lander which parachuted and air-braked down through the thick Venusian atmosphere in March of 1982. The desolate landscape it saw included flat rocks, vast empty terrain, and a featureless sky above Phoebe Regio near Venus' equator. On the lower left is the spacecraft's penetrometer used to make scientific measurements, while the light piece on the right is part of an ejected lens-cap. Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth, the hardened Venera spacecraft lasted only about two hours. Although data from Venera 14 was beamed across the inner Solar System almost 40 years ago, digital processing and merging of Venera's unusual images continues even today. Recent analyses of infrared measurements taken by ESA's orbiting Venus Express spacecraft indicate that active volcanoes may currently exist on Venus.

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Ann » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:08 am

Someone once said: The more time I spend with people, the more I like my dog.

I say: The more I see of Mars and Venus, the more I like the Earth.

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:27 pm

coincided with you

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:44 pm

Ann wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:08 am
Someone once said: The more time I spend with people, the more I like my dog.

I say: The more I see of Mars and Venus, the more I like the Earth.

Ann
Venus. Free of cold and snow!
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by De58te » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:52 pm

Just thinking about how unfriendly the rest of the Universe is to human life forms. Here's another example. Not only is the temperature hot enough so that you can roast your turkey dinner without needing an oven, but at 75 times the Earth's pressure, presumably 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level, then looking at the Venera image in the forefront, I assume if the triangular things seen are about a square inch, then there is the equivalent of a 1,100 pound horse sitting on each one of them! Yikes. A whole stable of horses are sitting invisible on that pentrometer!

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by sillyworm 2 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:03 pm

Wow...now THIS is a remarkable APOD.The links to the Venus pictures opened up some amazing images.Thanks!

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A VOYAGE TO BROBDINGNAG.

Post by neufer » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:22 pm

http://mentallandscape.com/V_Venera11.htm wrote:
<<Venera-13 revealed rolling hills with layered slabs of rock and soil. From high resolution radar imaging of the landing site, Russian geologists A.M. Abdrakhimov and A.T. Bazilevskii concluded that Venera-13 probably landed on the most common type of Venusian terrain, plains with wrinkle ridges. These are the oldest volcanic plains, formed about 750 million years ago, fractured and buckled by tectonic pressures in the crust.

Venera-14 saw a flat expanse of rock with no soil. Radar imaging of the site reveals a younger volcanic plain with lobate flows of lava, probably formed a few million years ago. The rock, which was first considered to be solidified lava, is actually layered and crunchy (as determined by impact deceleration analysis). One new theory suggests it is a pumice-like material, formed out of volcanic ash or dust from meteorite strikes. On Venus, large meteorites generate pulverizing shock waves in the dense atmosphere, even when the meteorite burns up before impact. Radar reveals parabolic fans of airfall deposits, downwind from these impacts and airbursts.

Scientists had once speculated that the fast zonal winds of Venus might polish its surface smooth. But compression and conservation of momentum dictate otherwise, and measurements have shown the surface winds are only about 0.5 to 1.0 meter/sec. The atmosphere is very dense at the surface, but unlike a liquid, the viscosity of gas does not increase much with pressure. In a perpetual dead calm, the surface of Venus is almost untouched by wind erosion.>>

  • A VOYAGE TO BROBDINGNAG.
The nurse, to quiet her babe, made use of a rattle which was a kind of hollow vessel filled with great stones, and fastened by a cable to the child’s waist: but all in vain; so that she was forced to apply the last remedy by giving it suck. I must confess no object ever disgusted me so much as the sight of her monstrous breast, which I cannot tell what to compare with, so as to give the curious reader an idea of its bulk, shape, and colour. It stood prominent six feet, and could not be less than sixteen in circumference. The nipple was about half the bigness of my head, and the hue both of that and the dug, so varied with spots, pimples, and freckles, that nothing could appear more nauseous: for I had a near sight of her, she sitting down, the more conveniently to give suck, and I standing on the table. This made me reflect upon the fair skins of our English ladies, who appear so beautiful to us, only because they are of our own size, and their defects not to be seen but through a magnifying glass; where we find by experiment that the smoothest and whitest skins look rough, and coarse, and ill-coloured.
Last edited by neufer on Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by neufer » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:57 pm

De58te wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:52 pm

... at 75 times the Earth's pressure, presumably 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level, then looking at the Venera image in the forefront, I assume if the triangular things seen are about a square inch, then there is the equivalent of a 1,100 pound horse sitting on each one of them! Yikes. A whole stable of horses are sitting invisible on that pentrometer!
  • Ahmed Gabr, a 41-year-old Egyptian, holds the Guinness World Record for the deepest SCUBA dive, plunging 332.35 m in the Red Sea off the coast of Dahab, Egypt.

    10 m of seawater ~ 1 atmosphere of pressure

    One atmosphere + 332 m of seawater ~ 34 atmospheres of pressure.
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Knight of Clear Skies » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:05 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:44 pm
Ann wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:08 am
Someone once said: The more time I spend with people, the more I like my dog.

I say: The more I see of Mars and Venus, the more I like the Earth.

Ann
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The travel agent's perspective.
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:24 pm

Venus_Venera13_960.jpg
APOD says
Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth,

:shock: Ow; Ow; Ouch! Hot; hot; hot!
That's a lot of heat boys! :p:
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:36 pm

orin stepanek wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:24 pm
Venus_Venera13_960.jpgAPOD says
Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth,

:shock: Ow; Ow; Ouch! Hot; hot; hot!
That's a lot of heat boys! :p:
Don't worry about it. The sulfuric acid atmosphere will burn those pain sensor off in no time at all.
Chris

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Mic Drop

Post by neufer » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:27 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mic_drop wrote:
<<A mic drop is the gesture of intentionally dropping one's microphone at the end of a performance or speech to signal triumph. Figuratively, it is an expression of triumph for a successful event and indicates a boastful attitude toward one's own performance. The gesture became prevalent in the 1980s, when it was used by rappers and comedians.>>
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:28 pm

De58te wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:52 pm
Just thinking about how unfriendly the rest of the Universe is to human life forms. Here's another example. Not only is the temperature hot enough so that you can roast your turkey dinner without needing an oven, but at 75 times the Earth's pressure, presumably 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level, then looking at the Venera image in the forefront, I assume if the triangular things seen are about a square inch, then there is the equivalent of a 1,100 pound horse sitting on each one of them! Yikes. A whole stable of horses are sitting invisible on that pentrometer!
But, that 1100 lb force is also exerted on the undersides of those triangular teeth, so the net is zero :ssmile:

Now, can someone tell me the purpose of those teeth? Is it to provide a uniform measurement scale? I can't find it explained anywhere.
"To Boldly Go......Beyond The Fields We Know."

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Mark Holm » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:43 pm

The APOD image for March 17, 2021 is identified as being a cleaned up version of one of the images from Venera 13. I think it may actually be from Venera 14.

Compare
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/plane ... nera14.jpg
and
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/plane ... nera13.jpg
with today’s APOD

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:46 pm

johnnydeep wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:28 pm
De58te wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:52 pm
Just thinking about how unfriendly the rest of the Universe is to human life forms. Here's another example. Not only is the temperature hot enough so that you can roast your turkey dinner without needing an oven, but at 75 times the Earth's pressure, presumably 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level, then looking at the Venera image in the forefront, I assume if the triangular things seen are about a square inch, then there is the equivalent of a 1,100 pound horse sitting on each one of them! Yikes. A whole stable of horses are sitting invisible on that pentrometer!
But, that 1100 lb force is also exerted on the undersides of those triangular teeth, so the net is zero :ssmile:
Not really. All of that pressure on the external surface is trying to collapse the teeth. Of course, this pressure is still very small compared with the material strength of the metal, so we don't see collapse. A weaker material (like you or me) would fare much worse.
Now, can someone tell me the purpose of those teeth? Is it to provide a uniform measurement scale? I can't find it explained anywhere.
They serve an aerodynamic function of providing a more stable orientation during landing. The earlier Venera missions had problems with the craft rolling and spinning. The teeth were added on the last couple of probes in an effort to minimize that and provide a softer landing.
Chris

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Venera 14 Venusian scorpian?

Post by neufer » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:53 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera_13#Suggested_photographic_evidence_of_life wrote:
<<Leonid Ksanfomaliti of Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences (a contributor to the Venera mission) and Stan Karaszewski of Karas, suggested signs of life in the Venera images in an article published in Solar System Research. According to Ksanfomaliti, certain objects resembled a "disk", a "black flap" and a "scorpion" which "emerge, fluctuate and disappear", referring to their changing location on photographs and traces on the ground.

Engineers familiar with the probe have identified the moving "disk" as actually being the two lens caps ejected from the lander. Rather than a single object that had moved between two places, they are simply two inanimate similar-looking objects in different places. The other "objects" are ascribed to image processing artifacts and do not appear in the original photography.

The editors of Solar System Research published an editorial comment and a number of commentary articles from other scientists in their September 2012 publication of Issue 5, Volume 46 of the journal. That issue also includes a second article from Ksanfomaliti, in which he claims to identify several other life forms and speculates regarding the apparent rich diversity of life around the landing site.

These claims have been refuted by the Live Science website.>>
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:58 pm

Chirs wrote: Venus. Free of cold and snow!
¡But with Vulcan's forge!

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:13 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:36 pm
orin stepanek wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:24 pm
Venus_Venera13_960.jpgAPOD says
Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth,

:shock: Ow; Ow; Ouch! Hot; hot; hot!
That's a lot of heat boys! :p:
Don't worry about it. The sulfuric acid atmosphere will burn those pain sensor off in no time at all.
:lol2: True enough!
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:29 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:46 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:28 pm
De58te wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:52 pm
Just thinking about how unfriendly the rest of the Universe is to human life forms. Here's another example. Not only is the temperature hot enough so that you can roast your turkey dinner without needing an oven, but at 75 times the Earth's pressure, presumably 14.7 pounds per square inch at sea level, then looking at the Venera image in the forefront, I assume if the triangular things seen are about a square inch, then there is the equivalent of a 1,100 pound horse sitting on each one of them! Yikes. A whole stable of horses are sitting invisible on that pentrometer!
But, that 1100 lb force is also exerted on the undersides of those triangular teeth, so the net is zero :ssmile:
Not really. All of that pressure on the external surface is trying to collapse the teeth. Of course, this pressure is still very small compared with the material strength of the metal, so we don't see collapse. A weaker material (like you or me) would fare much worse.
Point taken, but I was just (humorously) pointing out that there is no net downward force pushing everything into the ground.
Chris Peterson wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:46 pm
johnnydeep wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:28 pm
Now, can someone tell me the purpose of those teeth? Is it to provide a uniform measurement scale? I can't find it explained anywhere.
They serve an aerodynamic function of providing a more stable orientation during landing. The earlier Venera missions had problems with the craft rolling and spinning. The teeth were added on the last couple of probes in an effort to minimize that and provide a softer landing.
Cool!
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Cousin Ricky » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:34 pm

I’ve never seen a Venera image with that much sky visible.

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Holger Nielsen » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:07 pm

Mark Holm:
The APOD image for March 17, 2021 is identified as being a cleaned up version of one of the images from Venera 13. I think it may actually be from Venera 14.
Yes, judging by photos on David P. Mitchell's page http://mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm the image shows the Venera 14 landing site.
Under the heading "Venera 13" Mitchell compares two photos, one obviously from Venera 13 and the other from Venera 14, resembling the APOD-image.
As to the sky shown I guess it is just an extrapolation of the tiny sky views visible in the original picture, not based on actual data.

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by neufer » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:55 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:36 pm
orin stepanek wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:24 pm
Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth,
:shock: Ow; Ow; Ouch! Hot; hot; hot!
That's a lot of heat boys! :p:
Don't worry about it. The sulfuric acid atmosphere will burn those pain sensor off in no time at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_dioxide wrote:
<<Sulfur dioxide is the chemical compound with the formula SO2. It is a toxic gas responsible for the smell of burnt matches. It is released naturally by volcanic activity and is produced as a by-product of copper extraction and the burning of fossil fuels contaminated with sulfur compounds. Sulfur dioxide has pungent smell like nitric acid.

Sulfur dioxide is found on Earth and exists in very small concentrations and in the atmosphere at about 1 ppm. On other planets, sulfur dioxide can be found in various concentrations, the most significant being the atmosphere of Venus, where it is the third-most significant atmospheric gas at 150 ppm. There, it condenses to form clouds, and is a key component of chemical reactions in the planet's atmosphere and contributes to global warming. It has been implicated as a key agent in the warming of early Mars, with estimates of concentrations in the lower atmosphere as high as 100 ppm, though it only exists in trace amounts. On both Venus and Mars, as on Earth, its primary source is thought to be volcanic. The atmosphere of Io, a natural satellite of Jupiter, is 90% sulfur dioxide. As an ice, it is thought to exist in abundance on the Galilean moons—as subliming ice or frost on the trailing hemisphere of Io, and in the crust and mantle of Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto, possibly also in liquid form and readily reacting with water.>>
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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by RJN » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:06 pm

Mark Holm wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:43 pm
The APOD image for March 17, 2021 is identified as being a cleaned up version of one of the images from Venera 13. I think it may actually be from Venera 14
Yes, that is correct, the image was from Venera 14, and I have now changed the text on the main NASA APOD page to indicate this. I emailed Donald Mitchell, a composer of the image, and he confirmed that it is indeed Venera 14. Apparently I misinterpreted his description of two images that he sent me over email, thinking both were of Venera 13. My apologies.

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by Round rock denizen » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:21 am

Truly, truly remarkable work, really impressive image processing and still squeezing juice from these 30-year old photos from our old steampunk friends the Veneras. The big ugly machines that could, with their vintage Soviet pressure-cooker looks, they did what no other has done since, they were so far ahead of their time.

Mars feels familiar, now, but these rarest of all images with the weird rock patterns still amaze, they feel so alien. The big white sky turns these photos into landscapes at last, and you can feel the lead melting around you (how refreshing). These little whitish patches on the basalt are tantalizing too (please let it be fresh bismuth snow).

And the other one on Don Mitchell's website, the one on the left, from the other landing site...

Image

... on that one the cleft between the two hills, opens into a vista far bigger than anything on the nose-to-the-ground original Venera images. The horizon disappears into heat haze, or shimmer, or refraction, or whatever, but it's not the dirty-aquarium murk of most artist concepts of a Venusian landscape. Those, as in the video posted earlier in this thread, seem inspired by Dante's inferno. This landscape isn't like that. Despite the heat and the pressure, the air is clear and clean. Just clean CO2 and sulphuric acid, you can see forever.

And the shocking yellow color of it all, if you turn on the color. Then it's frankly too much. It's yellowish on Titan too. Are all weird worlds yellow?

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Re: APOD: The Surface of Venus from Venera 13 (2021 Mar 17)

Post by neufer » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:28 am

RJN wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:06 pm
Mark Holm wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:43 pm

The APOD image for March 17, 2021 is identified as being a cleaned up version of one of the images from Venera 13. I think it may actually be from Venera 14
Yes, that is correct, the image was from Venera 14, and I have now changed the text on the main NASA APOD page to indicate this. I emailed Donald Mitchell, a composer of the image, and he confirmed that it is indeed Venera 14. Apparently I misinterpreted his description of two images that he sent me over email, thinking both were of Venera 13.
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1981-110D wrote:
The [Venera 14] lander survived for 57 minutes (the planned design life was 32 minutes) in an environment with a temperature of 470 degrees C and a pressure of 94 Earth atmospheres. The descent vehicle transmitted data to the bus, which acted as a data relay as it flew by Venus.
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1981-106D wrote:
The [Venera 13] lander survived for 127 minutes (the planned design life was 32 minutes) in an environment with a temperature of 457 degrees C and a pressure of 89 Earth atmospheres. The descent vehicle transmitted data to the bus, which acted as a data relay as it flew by Venus.
APOD Robot wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:05 am
Image The Surface of Venus from Venera 14

Explanation: If you could stand on Venus -- what would you see? Pictured is the view from Venera 14, a robotic Soviet lander which parachuted and air-braked down through the thick Venusian atmosphere in March of 1982. The desolate landscape it saw included flat rocks, vast empty terrain, and a featureless sky above Phoebe Regio near Venus' equator. On the lower left is the spacecraft's penetrometer used to make scientific measurements, while the light piece on the right is part of an ejected lens-cap. Enduring temperatures near 450 degrees Celsius and pressures 75 times that on Earth, the hardened Venera spacecraft lasted only about two hours. Although data from Venera 14 was beamed across the inner Solar System almost 40 years ago, digital processing and merging of Venera's unusual images continues even today. Recent analyses of infrared measurements taken by ESA's orbiting Venus Express spacecraft indicate that active volcanoes may currently exist on Venus.
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