APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

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APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by APOD Robot » Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:09 am

Image Solar System Family Portrait

Explanation: Yes, but have you ever seen all of the planets at once? A rare roll-call of planets has been occurring in the morning sky for much of June. The featured fisheye all-sky image, taken a few mornings ago near the town of San Pedro de Atacama in Chile, caught not only the entire planet parade, but the Moon between Mars and Venus. In order, left to right along the ecliptic plane, members of this Solar System family portrait are Earth, Saturn, Neptune, Jupiter, Mars, Uranus, Venus, Mercury, and Earth. To emphasize their locations, Neptune and Uranus have been artificially enhanced. The volcano just below Mercury is Licancabur. In July, Mercury will move into the Sun's glare but reappear a few days later on the evening side. Then, in August, Saturn will drift past the direction opposite the Sun and so become visible at dusk instead of dawn. The next time that all eight planets will be simultaneously visible in a morning sky will be in 2122.

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by De58te » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 am

If I'm not mistaken, the dwarf planet Pluto if it was bright enough should also be there, far to the left of Saturn. This month all the planets are to one side of the sun. Any exoplanet hunter in the Alpha Centauri system should really see a big wobble of the Sun.

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:30 pm

De58te wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 am If I'm not mistaken, the dwarf planet Pluto if it was bright enough should also be there, far to the left of Saturn. This month all the planets are to one side of the sun. Any exoplanet hunter in the Alpha Centauri system should really see a big wobble of the Sun.

I agree; but it's not in the 'IN' group anymore! Still I think it is one the most interesting of all the planets!
th-273112394.jpg
Then my top pick would be Saturn; so many lovely views of this planet!
saturn3.en.jpg
Oh! Kitty looks upset!
istockphoto-1240888678-170667a.jpg
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:48 pm

De58te wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 am If I'm not mistaken, the dwarf planet Pluto if it was bright enough should also be there, far to the left of Saturn. This month all the planets are to one side of the sun. Any exoplanet hunter in the Alpha Centauri system should really see a big wobble of the Sun.
Not much bigger than usual, though, given that Jupiter masses more than all the other planets together, and contributes almost all of the wobble of the Sun.
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Sa Ji Tario

Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:46 pm

De58te wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 am If I'm not mistaken, the dwarf planet Pluto if it was bright enough should also be there, far to the left of Saturn. This month all the planets are to one side of the sun. Any exoplanet hunter in the Alpha Centauri system should really see a big wobble of the Sun.
I think that "great wobble" would not be seen, if the mass of the Sun is equivalent to a sack of cement (50 kg) all the remaining mass is equivalent to 2 (two) tablespoons of the same material added the distances

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:52 pm

Sa Ji Tario wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:46 pm
De58te wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 am If I'm not mistaken, the dwarf planet Pluto if it was bright enough should also be there, far to the left of Saturn. This month all the planets are to one side of the sun. Any exoplanet hunter in the Alpha Centauri system should really see a big wobble of the Sun.
I think that "great wobble" would not be seen, if the mass of the Sun is equivalent to a sack of cement (50 kg) all the remaining mass is equivalent to 2 (two) tablespoons of the same material added the distances
The wobble is measurable. Either by Doppler (although at a declination of 60° Alpha Centauri is not ideally placed to detect that, or by parallax (which at a distance of only 4 light years, Alpha Centauri is well positioned). It just comes down to the sensitivity of the instruments. But in either case, the measurements should be above any theoretical noise floor, so it's a matter of technology, not physics.
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by RJN » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:00 pm

The text "The next time that all eight planets will be simultaneously visible in a morning sky will be in 2122" has now been updated to replace "a morning" with "the evening" on the main NASA APOD site. - RJN

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:27 pm

Friend Chris, I understand that movements between bodies around a common center are perceptible to any degree, here I was referring in particular to a "great" movement

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:37 pm

Sa Ji Tario wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:27 pm Friend Chris, I understand that movements between bodies around a common center are perceptible to any degree, here I was referring in particular to a "great" movement
Agreed. The actual wobble of the Sun is very small, and almost entirely caused by Jupiter. The other planets being concentrated on one side doesn't change much.

The barycenter of the Sun-Jupiter system is actually greater than the radius of the Sun. The barycenter of the Sun-Saturn system is about halfway between the center of the Sun and its surface. The deviation from the center of the Sun for the other planets is extremely small.
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RET

Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by RET » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:15 pm

The next time that all eight planets will be simultaneously visible in the evening sky will be in 2122.
If my calculations are correct, we can watch 8 planets simultaneously in the evening sky around the end of this year.

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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:47 pm

RET wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:15 pm
The next time that all eight planets will be simultaneously visible in the evening sky will be in 2122.
If my calculations are correct, we can watch 8 planets simultaneously in the evening sky around the end of this year.
Agreed. At the end of the year Venus, Mercury, and Pluto will be in conjunction in the post sunset west, then spanning through Saturn, Neptune, Jupiter, Uranus, and finally Mars in the east.

Some nice lunar conjunctions with some of these planets over last weeks of December, too.
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm

The 2122 link says this:
The next period that Mercury through Saturn are all to the south occurs between 1 and 14 September 1997, and then off and on until 30 December 2001, after which the planets move north. The next period that these planets are all north of the ecliptic is between 9 and 12 January 2005.

The next time that Mercury through Neptune are all to the south of the ecliptic occurs around 20 June 2020, and the next time they are all to the north of the ecliptic occurs around 12 December 2122.
So, I have to ask, where is the ecliptic in this APOD?
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm The 2122 link says this:
The next period that Mercury through Saturn are all to the south occurs between 1 and 14 September 1997, and then off and on until 30 December 2001, after which the planets move north. The next period that these planets are all north of the ecliptic is between 9 and 12 January 2005.

The next time that Mercury through Neptune are all to the south of the ecliptic occurs around 20 June 2020, and the next time they are all to the north of the ecliptic occurs around 12 December 2122.
So, I have to ask, where is the ecliptic in this APOD?
Pretty much through the line of planets. Where else?
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:25 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm The 2122 link says this:
The next period that Mercury through Saturn are all to the south occurs between 1 and 14 September 1997, and then off and on until 30 December 2001, after which the planets move north. The next period that these planets are all north of the ecliptic is between 9 and 12 January 2005.

The next time that Mercury through Neptune are all to the south of the ecliptic occurs around 20 June 2020, and the next time they are all to the north of the ecliptic occurs around 12 December 2122.
So, I have to ask, where is the ecliptic in this APOD?
Pretty much through the line of planets. Where else?
Sure, but, I was mainly asking how many planets in this image are either north or south of it. The 2022 link is only talking about all of them being on one side or the other. So, in 2022, they are all north of it. Does that mean that there isn't some earlier time where they line up from our perspective, but some are north and some are south?
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:25 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm The 2122 link says this:



So, I have to ask, where is the ecliptic in this APOD?
Pretty much through the line of planets. Where else?
Sure, but, I was mainly asking how many planets in this image are either north or south of it. The 2022 link is only talking about all of them being on one side or the other. So, in 2022, they are all north of it. Does that mean that there isn't some earlier time where they line up from our perspective, but some are north and some are south?
Ah. Yeah, I missed that. Not sure why having them all on one side is at all interesting, but there you go.They're not all on the same side in December. Not that anybody could tell that by eye.
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Screenshot 2022-06-29 152834.png
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:51 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:25 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm

Pretty much through the line of planets. Where else?
Sure, but, I was mainly asking how many planets in this image are either north or south of it. The 2022 link is only talking about all of them being on one side or the other. So, in 2022, they are all north of it. Does that mean that there isn't some earlier time where they line up from our perspective, but some are north and some are south?
Ah. Yeah, I missed that. Not sure why having them all on one side is at all interesting, but there you go.They're not all on the same side in December. Not that anybody could tell that by eye.
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Screenshot 2022-06-29 152834.png
So that pic seems to show them all south of the ecliptic, right? Is that for today's date? And in 2122 they are all north of it (not 2022 as I misstated!)
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:42 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:51 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:25 pm

Sure, but, I was mainly asking how many planets in this image are either north or south of it. The 2022 link is only talking about all of them being on one side or the other. So, in 2022, they are all north of it. Does that mean that there isn't some earlier time where they line up from our perspective, but some are north and some are south?
Ah. Yeah, I missed that. Not sure why having them all on one side is at all interesting, but there you go.They're not all on the same side in December. Not that anybody could tell that by eye.
_
Screenshot 2022-06-29 152834.png
So that pic seems to show them all south of the ecliptic, right? Is that for today's date? And in 2122 they are all north of it (not 2022 as I misstated!)
The image shows them at the time and place of today's APOD. Yes, all south of the ecliptic. It does look like they'll all be north of it in 2122, but they won't all be visible at the same time, as Mercury and Venus are on opposite sides of the Sun (Venus a morning object, Mercury an evening object).
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by alter-ego » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:57 am

Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:42 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:51 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:33 pm
Ah. Yeah, I missed that. Not sure why having them all on one side is at all interesting, but there you go.They're not all on the same side in December. Not that anybody could tell that by eye.
_
Screenshot 2022-06-29 152834.png
So that pic seems to show them all south of the ecliptic, right? Is that for today's date? And in 2122 they are all north of it (not 2022 as I misstated!)
The image shows them at the time and place of today's APOD. Yes, all south of the ecliptic. It does look like they'll all be north of it in 2122, but they won't all be visible at the same time, as Mercury and Venus are on opposite sides of the Sun (Venus a morning object, Mercury an evening object).
Yes, no evening grouping of all the planets in 2122. Although all are in the same hemisphere, the separation between Mercury and Neptune ≈176°, or there are planets too close to the sun to be visible. However, for the grouping in April 2122, Saturn is south of the ecliptic and the rest are north.
The morning grouping (as originally stated) all planets will be visible (late Dec, 2122), and they are all north of the ecliptic.

Edit: No, I spaced. I totally forgot :roll: :?: Mars doesn't enter the same hemisphere for the evening grouping. It is in the morning grouping. Funny how fast realizations can both come and go...LOL
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:39 pm

Haven't been paying much attention to the actual images from my allsky camera unless they capture a meteor. But they are archived, and what do you know, those images do capture the planetary lineup. Here's one from a few days ago. No significant processing- the brightnesses are as recorded by the camera, altered at most by the internal gamma the camera hardware uses. Venus is shining through tree branches, and there's a bit of interference from think clouds.
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M20220624_042225_annot.jpg
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:37 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:39 pm Haven't been paying much attention to the actual images from my allsky camera unless they capture a meteor. But they are archived, and what do you know, those images do capture the planetary lineup. Here's one from a few days ago. No significant processing- the brightnesses are as recorded by the camera, altered at most by the internal gamma the camera hardware uses. Venus is shining through tree branches, and there's a bit of interference from think clouds.
_
M20220624_042225_annot.jpg
Nice. Why aren't the bright stars visible?
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:40 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:37 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:39 pm Haven't been paying much attention to the actual images from my allsky camera unless they capture a meteor. But they are archived, and what do you know, those images do capture the planetary lineup. Here's one from a few days ago. No significant processing- the brightnesses are as recorded by the camera, altered at most by the internal gamma the camera hardware uses. Venus is shining through tree branches, and there's a bit of interference from think clouds.
_
M20220624_042225_annot.jpg
Nice. Why aren't the bright stars visible?
Well, the four I labeled on the chart are all visible in the image. (If you can't see them, it's probably a display calibration issue.)
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Re: APOD: Solar System Family Portrait (2022 Jun 29)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:05 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:40 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:37 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:39 pm Haven't been paying much attention to the actual images from my allsky camera unless they capture a meteor. But they are archived, and what do you know, those images do capture the planetary lineup. Here's one from a few days ago. No significant processing- the brightnesses are as recorded by the camera, altered at most by the internal gamma the camera hardware uses. Venus is shining through tree branches, and there's a bit of interference from think clouds.
_
M20220624_042225_annot.jpg
Nice. Why aren't the bright stars visible?
Well, the four I labeled on the chart are all visible in the image. (If you can't see them, it's probably a display calibration issue.)
Alright - I *think* I found them all, though Capella was particularly difficult for me to spot since it's apparently the one in the trees closer to the edge where I was expecting. I had to invert the image in Gimp to see any of the others though. Perhaps the display on my cheap Dell laptop is to blame, or maybe it's my eyes :-)
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