Four arms or two?

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Ann
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Four arms or two?

Post by Ann » Sun May 14, 2023 6:42 am


Astronomers used to believe that the Milky Way has four arms.
Phys.org wrote:

The case for a four-armed Milky Way may have just gotten stronger.

A team of Brazilian astronomers used star clusters embedded in their natal clouds to trace the galaxy's structure. "Our results favour a four-armed spiral galaxy, which includes the Sagittarius-Carina, Perseus, and outer arms," remarked the group from the Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul.

However...
Phys.org wrote:

For many years, space scientists have imagined the Milky Way galaxy as a spiral shape with a central bulge and four main spiraling arms—with several other smaller branching arms. Over the past several years, telescope technology has improved and along with it, the realization that the vast majority of galaxies conform to just one of three main shapes: spiral, irregular and elliptical. Also, most have two main arms with spirals splitting into smaller arms.
...
Such observations suggest that if the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy with four arms, it would be extraordinarily rare. And if that were the case, there would have to be some unique attributes that would have led to such a unique shape. The researchers with this new effort suggest it is more likely that we got the shape wrong from the start. They believe that, like most other galaxies, the Milky Way has just two main arms.
So statistics argues that the Milky Way has only two main two arms and not four!


Ann
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Rauf
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Re: Four arms or two?

Post by Rauf » Tue May 16, 2023 2:52 pm

Ann wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 6:42 am
Astronomers used to believe that the Milky Way has four arms.
Phys.org wrote:

The case for a four-armed Milky Way may have just gotten stronger.

A team of Brazilian astronomers used star clusters embedded in their natal clouds to trace the galaxy's structure. "Our results favour a four-armed spiral galaxy, which includes the Sagittarius-Carina, Perseus, and outer arms," remarked the group from the Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul.

However...
Phys.org wrote:

For many years, space scientists have imagined the Milky Way galaxy as a spiral shape with a central bulge and four main spiraling arms—with several other smaller branching arms. Over the past several years, telescope technology has improved and along with it, the realization that the vast majority of galaxies conform to just one of three main shapes: spiral, irregular and elliptical. Also, most have two main arms with spirals splitting into smaller arms.
...
Such observations suggest that if the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy with four arms, it would be extraordinarily rare. And if that were the case, there would have to be some unique attributes that would have led to such a unique shape. The researchers with this new effort suggest it is more likely that we got the shape wrong from the start. They believe that, like most other galaxies, the Milky Way has just two main arms.
So statistics argues that the Milky Way has only two main two arms and not four!


Ann

Well, time to ask our alien friends in LMC and SMC about how our galaxy looks like :D :lol2:

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Ann
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Re: Four arms or two?

Post by Ann » Tue May 16, 2023 7:13 pm

Rauf wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:52 pm
Well, time to ask our alien friends in LMC and SMC about how our galaxy looks like :D :lol2:
Alien on Oumuamua from SMC.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua

Ann
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Rauf
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Re: Four arms or two?

Post by Rauf » Wed May 17, 2023 4:30 am

Ann wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:13 pm
Rauf wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:52 pm
Well, time to ask our alien friends in LMC and SMC about how our galaxy looks like :D :lol2:

Alien on Oumuamua from SMC.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua

Ann

I used a software called SpaceEngine to see how big Milky Way looks like from a hypothesized planet on the LMC.. They have a great night sky out there!
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Re: Four arms or two?

Post by daolybd763 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:57 am

Ann wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:13 pm
Rauf wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:52 pm
Well, time to ask our alien friends in LMC and SMC about how our galaxy looks like :D :lol2:

Alien on Oumuamua from SMC.png Slope Game


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua

Ann
What is one piece of evidence that the Milky Way is a spiral Galaxy? The location of gas clouds are explained by a spiral pattern. Using the slope of Hubble's law.

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Ann
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Re: Four arms or two?

Post by Ann » Wed Jan 03, 2024 6:15 am

daolybd763 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:57 am
Ann wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 7:13 pm
Rauf wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 2:52 pm
Well, time to ask our alien friends in LMC and SMC about how our galaxy looks like :D :lol2:

Alien on Oumuamua from SMC.png Slope Game


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOumuamua

Ann
What is one piece of evidence that the Milky Way is a spiral Galaxy? The location of gas clouds are explained by a spiral pattern. Using the slope of Hubble's law.
How do we know that the Milky Way is a spiral galaxy? Well, let's start by considering the nocturnal scarab beetle, which navigates using the stars:



How does it do it? Does it look up and say to itself, look, there's Orion, I'd better keep it in my sight to find my way home?

No. The scarab beetle navigates by using the light of the band of the Milky Way. To us, and to them, the Milky Way looks like an elongated band of light in the sky.

In the night sky, away from the band of the Milky Way, we can see other, seemingly very tiny-looking, elongated bands of light. This one is called NGC 4565:


NGC 4565 is an edge-on galaxy that is some 30 to 50 million light-years away. You can see that NGC 4565 is "split" by a dark lane running all the way along the middle of its disk. Well, the light of the Milky Way shows a dark band along its middle, too:


We can't really see what the Milky Way looks like, because not only are we "in the middle of it", so that we can't get a full overview of it - for example, we see some things very clearly because they are close to us, and other things look insignificant because they are far away - but we also see the Milky Way almost perfectly edge on, just like we see NGC 4565.


So we can't easily tell what is near and far away from us when we look at the band of the Milky Way. But worse, we see our home galaxy almost exactly edge on, just like we see NGC 4565. From this position we can't see any spiral arms. But we can look at other galaxies that are highly inclined, but not exactly edge-on, and actually see their spiral arms:


Look at the picture of NGC 7331. Note that you can actually see the endings of what looks like at least three spiral arms in the lower part of the image.

And consider our large neighbor, the Andromeda galaxy:


Even though Andromeda is rather highly inclined, we can indeed see the spiral pattern in it.


But let's ask ourselves another question. If we had lived inside an elliptical galaxy, what would our night skies have looked like? Consider this illustration of what the night skies might have looked like inside globular cluster 47 Tucanae:

Inside 47 Tucanae William Harris and Jeremy Webb.png
Inside globular cluster 47 Tucanae. Credit: William Harris/Jeremy Webb.


In the picture at left, which attempts to show what the night sky inside globular cluster 47 Tucanae would look like, you can see what looks like dust lanes in the globular. They are actually background dust lanes in the Milky Way, not dust lanes inside 47 Tucanae itself.

We can't really compare the view inside a globular cluster with the view inside an elliptical galaxy, but I'd say that if we were well inside an elliptical galaxy, the sky would be relatively milky "all over". However, we would definitely see a great brightening towards the center of our galaxy, because there would be little or no dust hiding the center of the galaxy. If we were in the outskirts of an elliptical galaxy, we would see a large blob of light in the night sky with a bright center.

In short, if we lived inside an elliptical galaxy, our night skies would look different than they do now.

Ann
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