APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 5433
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by APOD Robot » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:10 am

Image Palm Tree Partial Eclipse

Explanation: Only those along the narrow track of the Moon's shadow on April 8 saw a total solar eclipse. But most of North America still saw a partial eclipse of the Sun. From Clearwater, Florida, USA this single snapshot captured multiple images of that more widely viewed celestial event without observing the Sun directly. In the shade of a palm tree, criss-crossing fronds are projecting recognizable eclipse images on the ground, pinhole camera style. In Clearwater the maximum eclipse phase was about 53 percent.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>

DanielCuriousLayman
Asternaut
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:07 am

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by DanielCuriousLayman » Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:46 am

Hello!

Today's APOD image is considerably larger in file size than it needs to be, as it's been saved using the PNG format. It should likely be using JPEG instead. I am referring to the image at this path: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2404/p ... lm1024.png

I have confirmed I can download the approximately 1 Megabyte PNG file and re-save in PNG format and achieve something like a 78% file size reduction to bring down to around 215 Kilobytes.

It's possible few APOD users will notice, what with prevalence of high-speed broadband these days, but I thought I'd share this IT professional's suggestion anyway!

By the way, for those curious:

PNG is excellent for images that feature sharp lines and flat colors, such as screenshots of computer software. As PNG is a 'lossless' encoder, it's ideal at preserving the fine structure in things like logos, Excel spreadsheets, charts, info graphics, etc. Additionally, PNG supports images having regions of transparency where a background color or image can 'peek through', something you can't do with JPEG.

JPEG is an excellent choice for non-professional photography where lossy encoding is acceptable. It's a particularly good choice for photographic images that have already been modified and edited in a higher-quality 'RAW' format before being saved again for distribution to others, including over the internet. It provides a reasonable balance between image quality and file size. It is worth reiterating that not only is JPEG lossy, it also suffers from something called 'generation loss', where repeatedly decoding and re-encoding an image to save it again causes a loss of information each time, degrading the image.

Anyway, thanks for having me!

Daniel
Melbourne, Australia

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:59 pm

DanielCuriousLayman wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:46 am Hello!

Today's APOD image is considerably larger in file size than it needs to be, as it's been saved using the PNG format. It should likely be using JPEG instead. I am referring to the image at this path: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2404/p ... lm1024.png

I have confirmed I can download the approximately 1 Megabyte PNG file and re-save in PNG format and achieve something like a 78% file size reduction to bring down to around 215 Kilobytes.

It's possible few APOD users will notice, what with prevalence of high-speed broadband these days, but I thought I'd share this IT professional's suggestion anyway!

By the way, for those curious:

PNG is excellent for images that feature sharp lines and flat colors, such as screenshots of computer software. As PNG is a 'lossless' encoder, it's ideal at preserving the fine structure in things like logos, Excel spreadsheets, charts, info graphics, etc. Additionally, PNG supports images having regions of transparency where a background color or image can 'peek through', something you can't do with JPEG.

JPEG is an excellent choice for non-professional photography where lossy encoding is acceptable. It's a particularly good choice for photographic images that have already been modified and edited in a higher-quality 'RAW' format before being saved again for distribution to others, including over the internet. It provides a reasonable balance between image quality and file size. It is worth reiterating that not only is JPEG lossy, it also suffers from something called 'generation loss', where repeatedly decoding and re-encoding an image to save it again causes a loss of information each time, degrading the image.

Anyway, thanks for having me!

Daniel
Melbourne, Australia
Interest - thanks. At times I've often wondered - briefly - why a PNG format file is so much larger than a JPEG and now I know! Never took an interest in the particular formats used in the APODs though. I guess my connection speed is fast enough. 😊

PNG is also the default format that the MS Snipping tool saves in, which is why PNG format annoys me, since I often use it.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:00 pm

One of the links mentions that the length of totality varies - significantly - at different locations. Why is this? Complex orbital motions or something simpler?
https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/skywatching/how-is-the-2024-total-solar-eclipse-different-than-the-2017-eclipse/ wrote:In April, totality will last longer than it did in 2017. Seven years ago, the longest period of totality was experienced near Carbondale, Illinois, at 2 minutes, 42 seconds.

For the upcoming eclipse, totality will last up to 4 minutes, 28 seconds, in an area about 25 minutes northwest of Torreón, Mexico. As the eclipse enters Texas, totality will last about 4 minutes, 26 seconds at the center of the eclipse's path. Durations longer than 4 minutes stretch as far north as Economy, Indiana. Even as the eclipse exits the U.S. and enters Canada, the eclipse will last up to 3 minutes, 21 seconds.

During any total solar eclipse, totality lasts the longest near the center of the path, widthwise, and decreases toward the edge. But those seeking totality shouldn’t worry that they need to be exactly at the center. The time in totality falls off pretty slowly until you get close to the edge.
Is it simply due to the different shadow widths? Or is the speed of the orbit also involved?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

Roy

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by Roy » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:02 pm

Thanks for the info, Daniel in Melbourne! I watched all episodes of “Water Rats” and looked up the Aussie slang, so I think the appropriate phrase is “Fair Dinkum”!
Anyway, here in midcoast Maine we don’t have palm trees, or in fact any leaves on deciduous trees yet, so I had to make do with an actual pinhole, created by a ballpoint pen. We saw a crescent image, focal length about two feet. My wife’s remark was that the dimmer light, looking out into the back woods, seemed to be a different color.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18337
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:05 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:59 pm
DanielCuriousLayman wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:46 am Hello!

Today's APOD image is considerably larger in file size than it needs to be, as it's been saved using the PNG format. It should likely be using JPEG instead. I am referring to the image at this path: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2404/p ... lm1024.png

I have confirmed I can download the approximately 1 Megabyte PNG file and re-save in PNG format and achieve something like a 78% file size reduction to bring down to around 215 Kilobytes.

It's possible few APOD users will notice, what with prevalence of high-speed broadband these days, but I thought I'd share this IT professional's suggestion anyway!

By the way, for those curious:

PNG is excellent for images that feature sharp lines and flat colors, such as screenshots of computer software. As PNG is a 'lossless' encoder, it's ideal at preserving the fine structure in things like logos, Excel spreadsheets, charts, info graphics, etc. Additionally, PNG supports images having regions of transparency where a background color or image can 'peek through', something you can't do with JPEG.

JPEG is an excellent choice for non-professional photography where lossy encoding is acceptable. It's a particularly good choice for photographic images that have already been modified and edited in a higher-quality 'RAW' format before being saved again for distribution to others, including over the internet. It provides a reasonable balance between image quality and file size. It is worth reiterating that not only is JPEG lossy, it also suffers from something called 'generation loss', where repeatedly decoding and re-encoding an image to save it again causes a loss of information each time, degrading the image.

Anyway, thanks for having me!

Daniel
Melbourne, Australia
Interest - thanks. At times I've often wondered - briefly - why a PNG format file is so much larger than a JPEG and now I know! Never took an interest in the particular formats used in the APODs though. I guess my connection speed is fast enough. 😊

PNG is also the default format that the MS Snipping tool saves in, which is why PNG format annoys me, since I often use it.
PNG is good for graphics and text images, because it is usually written in a lossless format (but it doesn't have to be... lossy PNG creates much smaller files, more similar to JPEG). So for screen captures, PNG is usually a better format unless you actively require a small file and can accommodate some artifacts. As noted by the OP, there's rarely a reason to use PNG for photographic images.

FWIW, the MS snipping tool can write JPEG files, and if you tell it to do so, it will write all future captures that way until you change back.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:17 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:05 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:59 pm
DanielCuriousLayman wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:46 am Hello!

Today's APOD image is considerably larger in file size than it needs to be, as it's been saved using the PNG format. It should likely be using JPEG instead. I am referring to the image at this path: https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2404/p ... lm1024.png

I have confirmed I can download the approximately 1 Megabyte PNG file and re-save in PNG format and achieve something like a 78% file size reduction to bring down to around 215 Kilobytes.

It's possible few APOD users will notice, what with prevalence of high-speed broadband these days, but I thought I'd share this IT professional's suggestion anyway!

By the way, for those curious:

PNG is excellent for images that feature sharp lines and flat colors, such as screenshots of computer software. As PNG is a 'lossless' encoder, it's ideal at preserving the fine structure in things like logos, Excel spreadsheets, charts, info graphics, etc. Additionally, PNG supports images having regions of transparency where a background color or image can 'peek through', something you can't do with JPEG.

JPEG is an excellent choice for non-professional photography where lossy encoding is acceptable. It's a particularly good choice for photographic images that have already been modified and edited in a higher-quality 'RAW' format before being saved again for distribution to others, including over the internet. It provides a reasonable balance between image quality and file size. It is worth reiterating that not only is JPEG lossy, it also suffers from something called 'generation loss', where repeatedly decoding and re-encoding an image to save it again causes a loss of information each time, degrading the image.

Anyway, thanks for having me!

Daniel
Melbourne, Australia
Interest - thanks. At times I've often wondered - briefly - why a PNG format file is so much larger than a JPEG and now I know! Never took an interest in the particular formats used in the APODs though. I guess my connection speed is fast enough. 😊

PNG is also the default format that the MS Snipping tool saves in, which is why PNG format annoys me, since I often use it.
PNG is good for graphics and text images, because it is usually written in a lossless format (but it doesn't have to be... lossy PNG creates much smaller files, more similar to JPEG). So for screen captures, PNG is usually a better format unless you actively require a small file and can accommodate some artifacts. As noted by the OP, there's rarely a reason to use PNG for photographic images.

FWIW, the MS snipping tool can write JPEG files, and if you tell it to do so, it will write all future captures that way until you change back.
Well, it seems I always have to change the default Snipping tool format to JPG, or else it reverts back to PNG the next time I launch it. Is the change supposed to last between app closings/restarts? The same thing happens with the default file save folder: always reverts back to some folder I don't want on OneDrive.
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18337
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:38 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:17 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:05 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:59 pm

Interest - thanks. At times I've often wondered - briefly - why a PNG format file is so much larger than a JPEG and now I know! Never took an interest in the particular formats used in the APODs though. I guess my connection speed is fast enough. 😊

PNG is also the default format that the MS Snipping tool saves in, which is why PNG format annoys me, since I often use it.
PNG is good for graphics and text images, because it is usually written in a lossless format (but it doesn't have to be... lossy PNG creates much smaller files, more similar to JPEG). So for screen captures, PNG is usually a better format unless you actively require a small file and can accommodate some artifacts. As noted by the OP, there's rarely a reason to use PNG for photographic images.

FWIW, the MS snipping tool can write JPEG files, and if you tell it to do so, it will write all future captures that way until you change back.
Well, it seems I always have to change the default Snipping tool format to JPG, or else it reverts back to PNG the next time I launch it. Is the change supposed to last between app closings/restarts? The same thing happens with the default file save folder: always reverts back to some folder I don't want on OneDrive.
For me, it always saves in the same format I previously used. I don't see it reset itself to PNG. It also tries to save to the last folder I used. I have the option to automatically save disabled. This is under Win 11 with Snipping Tool 11.2303.17.0 (visible in the settings dialog).
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:54 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:38 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:17 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:05 pm

PNG is good for graphics and text images, because it is usually written in a lossless format (but it doesn't have to be... lossy PNG creates much smaller files, more similar to JPEG). So for screen captures, PNG is usually a better format unless you actively require a small file and can accommodate some artifacts. As noted by the OP, there's rarely a reason to use PNG for photographic images.

FWIW, the MS snipping tool can write JPEG files, and if you tell it to do so, it will write all future captures that way until you change back.
Well, it seems I always have to change the default Snipping tool format to JPG, or else it reverts back to PNG the next time I launch it. Is the change supposed to last between app closings/restarts? The same thing happens with the default file save folder: always reverts back to some folder I don't want on OneDrive.
For me, it always saves in the same format I previously used. I don't see it reset itself to PNG. It also tries to save to the last folder I used. I have the option to automatically save disabled. This is under Win 11 with Snipping Tool 11.2303.17.0 (visible in the settings dialog).
You're a genius! That worked! This has annoyed me for well over a year, and googling wasn't helping. Thanks!
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

Bird_Man
Ensign
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by Bird_Man » Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:37 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:00 pm One of the links mentions that the length of totality varies - significantly - at different locations. Why is this? Complex orbital motions or something simpler?
https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/skywatching/how-is-the-2024-total-solar-eclipse-different-than-the-2017-eclipse/ wrote:In April, totality will last longer than it did in 2017. Seven years ago, the longest period of totality was experienced near Carbondale, Illinois, at 2 minutes, 42 seconds.

For the upcoming eclipse, totality will last up to 4 minutes, 28 seconds, in an area about 25 minutes northwest of Torreón, Mexico. As the eclipse enters Texas, totality will last about 4 minutes, 26 seconds at the center of the eclipse's path. Durations longer than 4 minutes stretch as far north as Economy, Indiana. Even as the eclipse exits the U.S. and enters Canada, the eclipse will last up to 3 minutes, 21 seconds.

During any total solar eclipse, totality lasts the longest near the center of the path, widthwise, and decreases toward the edge. But those seeking totality shouldn’t worry that they need to be exactly at the center. The time in totality falls off pretty slowly until you get close to the edge.
Is it simply due to the different shadow widths? Or is the speed of the orbit also involved?
It appears that the moon is closer, making the shadow bigger and that causes totality to last longer. this article from Space.com seems to explain that. https://www.space.com/how-total-solar-e ... lar-eclips

User avatar
johnnydeep
Commodore
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:39 pm

Bird_Man wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:37 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:00 pm One of the links mentions that the length of totality varies - significantly - at different locations. Why is this? Complex orbital motions or something simpler?
https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/skywatching/how-is-the-2024-total-solar-eclipse-different-than-the-2017-eclipse/ wrote:In April, totality will last longer than it did in 2017. Seven years ago, the longest period of totality was experienced near Carbondale, Illinois, at 2 minutes, 42 seconds.

For the upcoming eclipse, totality will last up to 4 minutes, 28 seconds, in an area about 25 minutes northwest of Torreón, Mexico. As the eclipse enters Texas, totality will last about 4 minutes, 26 seconds at the center of the eclipse's path. Durations longer than 4 minutes stretch as far north as Economy, Indiana. Even as the eclipse exits the U.S. and enters Canada, the eclipse will last up to 3 minutes, 21 seconds.

During any total solar eclipse, totality lasts the longest near the center of the path, widthwise, and decreases toward the edge. But those seeking totality shouldn’t worry that they need to be exactly at the center. The time in totality falls off pretty slowly until you get close to the edge.
Is it simply due to the different shadow widths? Or is the speed of the orbit also involved?
It appears that the moon is closer, making the shadow bigger and that causes totality to last longer. this article from Space.com seems to explain that. https://www.space.com/how-total-solar-e ... lar-eclips
Thanks. That article gives some more details, but the distance to the moon still seems to only explain the difference between the 2017 eclipse and the one on April 8:
During the peak of the 2017 eclipse, the moon was 231,155 miles (372,008 km) from Earth, while on April 8, it will be 223,392 miles (359,515 km) away. On April 8, the moon will be a couple thousand miles closer, so its conical shadow that falls on Earth will have a larger diameter. In 2017, the path of totality was 62 to 71 miles wide, according to NASA, while on April 8, it will range between 108 and 122 miles wide, covering much more of Earth.
But what explains the difference in length of totality on different places along the path across the U.S.?
--
"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."{ʲₒʰₙNYᵈₑᵉₚ}

bls0326
Science Officer
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:18 pm
Location: USA, Texas, Amarillo

Re: APOD: Palm Tree Partial Eclipse (2024 Apr 13)

Post by bls0326 » Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:19 am

DanielCuriousLayman : Thanks for you comments about PNG, JPEG, etc. I find them and other replies very helpful.