Shelf Cloud (APOD 22 Jan 2008)

adrianxw · Post by **adrianxw** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:56 am

Yet another non astronomical picture on Astronomy Picture of the Day.

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:19 am

I was just going to add my two cents worth, but this really chaps my ass, so here is a nickels worth! What the hell are these EPOD pictures doing on APOD? With over a thousand new pictures of Mercury and you give us this crappola? And, what about the new pictures coming in from Mars, and Saturn on a daily basis? There is so much from true astronomy and you give us this? You should be ashamed of yourselves to even call this an astronomy site anymore. This is our grant moneys at work? APOD has about lost me as a person that looks forward to his daily viewing experience, my time could be spent better else where at real astronomy sites.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:57 pm

I don't understand why some one would cry and complain about the content on a free site - what, would you like your money back? Or maybe you would prefer banner ads and pop-ups?

You know you could start your own APOD and the it would "Perfect"! (for you) Make sure you don't post too many pictures of nebula or galaxies be cause some people think they all look the same, not too many pictures of planets be most people have seen them already, and watch that you don't post too many of NASA's projects because we already have those sources...

When I first saw this photo, I saw the art of the photographer, overwhelmed by the physics of our atmosphere and realized how much science I have yet to learn. Is it an "ideal" APOD? Probably not, but I find it scientifically prudent and artistically entertaining.

Indigo_Sunrise · Post by **Indigo_Sunrise** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:07 pm

I too find the images of stars, galaxies, dust clouds, etc., to be some of the best APoD's, but I do think that the more 'terrestial' images spark a lot of discussion as well.
Case in point are:
The APoD that depicted a strange light in a harbor in Australia, which many individuals were called upon to identify.
And the image that had a sort of rainbow-halo on the ground around the imager, and we visitors to APoD were asked to try and identify what caused it.
(Sorry, I searched for these images, but evidently didn't use the correct search critera, as I couldn't find and link to these images!!)

But the main point is that each and every image is a 'learning' one, and I for one applaud "The Powers That Be", for providing it for us!

And for those of you threatening to leave, well, we'll miss you....

npsguy · Post by **npsguy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Dr. Skeptic wrote:I don't understand why some one would cry and complain about the content on a free site.

The APOD is posted on nasa.gov... paid for with tax money. It isn't 'free'.

I am certainly not upset over earth pics being on APOD but I do agree that it would be better to keep the two separate. Especially since there are so many astronomy pics to choose from.

That said, I appreciate all the efforts put in by whoever hosts this forum and those who do choose the APOD pics. I certainly appreciate those who post all the images at NASA as well.

BTW... the shelf cloud pic IS an awesome pic...

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:00 pm

BTW did anyone see the EPOD today?
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsro ... index.php3

The APOD is hosted on NASA web servers, and the total budget for APOD is?

And the moderators are paid?

If there is no subscription fees and not funded by ads its free to the user.

FieryIce · Post by **FieryIce** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:30 pm

I for one am fed up with … aaACHEW!... bull$#** and artistic eye candy, this is suppose to be Astronomy Picture of the Day not Earth Picture of the Day (EPOD). Messenger takes what, a 1000 pictures a day and we get ~3 images, now that’s anal-retentive. What the hell does the Trans Canada Highway have to do with Astronomy?!

auroradude · Post by **auroradude** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 pm

It looks like this thing is kicking up a lot of dust so I'd make sure my observatory was shuttered up tight but just think how transparent the air was in the evening after the cold front passed!

Beautiful shot.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:14 pm

FieryIce wrote:I for one am fed up with … aaACHEW!... bull$#** and artistic eye candy, this is suppose to be Astronomy Picture of the Day not Earth Picture of the Day (EPOD). Messenger takes what, a 1000 pictures a day and we get ~3 images, now that’s anal-retentive. What the hell does the Trans Canada Highway have to do with Astronomy?!

You have miss-used the term Anal-Retentive, the choice of this picture has nothing to do with retaining past behavior.

And what would be your comments if your negativity make this site and forum "Go Away"?

If you are expecting perfection on this side of the Pearly Gates, its your expectations that are at fault.

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:21 pm

If you look at this in the larger context of the earth as just one of many planets with an atmosphere, the relevance becomes more apparent, in my opinion. Did we complain when the Mars rovers showed pictures of clouds on Mars?

I have a hard time getting upset when

1.) That larger context of the earth in the universe exists.
2.) NASA is involved weather research, too. Hosting weather-related photos and information on their servers, while not fully consistent with the APOD title, is consistent with their mission.
3.) My personal financial contribution to hosting that picture, assuming it takes one full time employee to manage APOD, is on the order of 0.0001 cents (~$100,000 / 300 million Americans / 365 days per year).
4.) I really enjoyed the picture and I learned something from it.

Granted, the caption doesn't really support that larger context and as npsguy fairly noted there are plenty of more clearly astronomy-related images to choose from, but hey, lighten up.

That's my 0.0001 cents worth.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:28 pm

Well put.

Thank you.

RJN · Post by **RJN** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:28 pm

I chose and wrote this APOD, and here are some of my thoughts on the criticism that this APOD is not true to APOD's astronomy theme.

First of all, I do think that this criticism does have some merit. How would I feel if my favorite classic-rock radio station suddenly played Beethoven? Possibly the same way -- especially if the radio station advertised that it played rock music.

They why did we run this image? Well, in some sense APOD is like a blog. Sometimes Jerry or I will just run things we think are cool. Fuzzy ideas that swim around in my brain when choosing a non-astronomical cool image include the wow factor of the image, whether the sky is at all involved, the educational content of the image, the scientific content of the image, and whether the image could be useful in the future as a link from a more main-stream astronomically-oriented APOD. I also hope that non-astronomy images are useful in drawing people with more diverse interests to view APOD and therefore become interested in astronomy.

Other arguments include "the Earth is also a planet" and that the term "astronomy" is actually somewhat vague these days. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy# ... physics.22
If one is to take the term "astronomy" at its Greek roots then APOD should only show star images! But these reasons are secondary.

APOD runs non-astronomy images about once a month or so. We have always done this. If you don't like it, I apologize, but I think it will continue. I still hope that, for the most part, everyone, even the astronomy purists, will still find APOD enjoyable and educational.

- RJN

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:43 pm

RJN, don't apologize! You're doing an excellent job. I don't always like the postings, but you can't expect to please everyone all of the time.

It is ironic that today's apod is an epod, and today's epod is an apod. Still, it is an interesting picture, and I enjoy atmospheric phenomena.

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:59 pm

Thanks Professor Nemiroff. It's interesting to hear your take on it.

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:34 pm

The APOD website is truly great, my day is always brightened when I take a look during my morning coffee. I don't like to leave for work without looking first.
My grateful thanks to the people who provide it.

Complaints? For goodness sake, it's a free resource of fantastic pictures which can both amaze and educate and it is a wonderful foil for the proliferation of porn and gambling websites which sometimes seem to be advancing inexorably to swamp the entire web.

It is strange indeed when people complain about something they get for nothing (or in the case of the Americans, almost nothing). A reality check is needed here.

Regarding the cloud picture that caused all this fuss? I've seen one of those before. And now I know what it is called, so thanks for that. Now I can tell my children too and they'll believe Daddy knows all about everything, which is just as it should be.

And those pictures of Mercury? Truly, truly wonderful. More of these please. And just I can't wait for Pluto. (but accept that I will have to of course

)

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:38 pm

FieryIce wrote:I for one am fed up with … aaACHEW!... bull$#** and artistic eye candy, this is suppose to be Astronomy Picture of the Day not Earth Picture of the Day (EPOD). Messenger takes what, a 1000 pictures a day and we get ~3 images, now that’s anal-retentive. What the hell does the Trans Canada Highway have to do with Astronomy?!

Phew!!!
Take a valium please. Ask for your money back if you're not satisfied. Oh, you didn't pay anything? Shut up then.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:26 pm

Do you think she'd get peaved and leave if APOD mirrored EPDO for 2 weeks???

craterchains · Post by **craterchains** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:57 am

To all you that seem to kiis the back side of the producers of this IAC (that is information aquisition and control) web site please note.

It is our tax dollars and grant monies that they are spending at their respective "whims".

Sooooooooooo there are other ways to get it set back as true APOD, there are ways.

EXCUSE ME ! ! ! DOT (that is .gov) GOVERNMENT is not freaking FREE ! ! ! It is paid for by our tax dollars yah freaking twits ! !

We ask for pertinent data, and we get "pretty pictures" instead? Give us the freaking size indicators in the images for a good change, or at least get the wording correct in what yah write.

sheeeeeeeeeesh this site would cause a 12th century scholar to turn over in the grave.

It is because of the very biased wikki crappola that it has become "fuzzy" in some peoples minds. Read the true Greek defination please. What a bunch of aaAAAACHOoooo, , , sorry.

NoelC · Post by **NoelC** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:49 am

Thank you Robert Nemiroff and Jerry Bonnell for all you have done to put up this fine image and all the many, many others that have so brightened my computer screen.

As an astronomy buff, clouds are on my mind as much as any object beyond.

Keep up the good work!

-Noel

P.S., if it helps the complainers, I'd like to point out the EPOD site posts astroimages sometimes too!

P.P.S., Public outreach and education websites like the APOD site are arguably amongst the best expenditures of whatever tax or private dollars go into making them! Yet some moron always has to complain. So, folks, where are YOUR public outreach and education websites? Or photos YOU'VE created and submitted for that matter?

Andy Wade · Post by **Andy Wade** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:25 am

NoelC wrote:Thank you Robert Nemiroff and Jerry Bonnell for all you have done to put up this fine image and all the many, many others that have so brightened my computer screen.

As an astronomy buff, clouds are on my mind as much as any object beyond.

Keep up the good work!

-Noel

P.S., if it helps the complainers, I'd like to point out the EPOD site posts astroimages sometimes too!

P.P.S., Public outreach and education websites like the APOD site are arguably amongst the best expenditures of whatever tax or private dollars go into making them! Yet some moron always has to complain. So, folks, where are YOUR public outreach and education websites? Or photos YOU'VE created and submitted for that matter?

Good point. Mine are nothing to do with Astronomy I'm afraid, but nonetheless educational:

http://www.forcez-survivors.org.uk
http://www.oakworthvillage.com

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:16 pm

craterchains wrote:To all you that seem to kiis the back side of the producers of this IAC (that is information aquisition and control) web site please note.

It is our tax dollars and grant monies that they are spending at their respective "whims".

Sooooooooooo there are other ways to get it set back as true APOD, there are ways.

EXCUSE ME ! ! ! DOT (that is .gov) GOVERNMENT is not freaking FREE ! ! ! It is paid for by our tax dollars yah freaking twits ! !

We ask for pertinent data, and we get "pretty pictures" instead? Give us the freaking size indicators in the images for a good change, or at least get the wording correct in what yah write.

sheeeeeeeeeesh this site would cause a 12th century scholar to turn over in the grave.

It is because of the very biased wikki crappola that it has become "fuzzy" in some peoples minds. Read the true Greek defination please. What a bunch of aaAAAACHOoooo, , , sorry.

It turns out that it is an astronomy picture - you most certainly reside on a planet different from Earth.

Have you found a source to quantify the amount for the APOD's budget yet?

Who is it that is in obligation to you to supply "pertinent data", and for you to determine what that "pertinent" is and what is not?

Do you know what NASA is an acronym for?

Would it make you happy if the name of the site was changed to:

APODAOPRN

Astronomy picture of the day and other pictures relevant to NASA?

bystander · Post by **bystander** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:48 pm

Dr. Skeptic wrote:Do you know what NASA is an acronym for?

National Aeronautics and Space Administration ?and your point is?

I also applaud Robert Nemiroff and Jerry Bonnell and all the other folks at APOD. It's the first site I visit when I start my desktop. Thanks.

Dr. Skeptic · Post by **Dr. Skeptic** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:09 pm

bystander wrote:
Dr. Skeptic wrote:Do you know what NASA is an acronym for?
National Aeronautics and Space Administration ?and your point is?

I also applaud Robert Nemiroff and Jerry Bonnell and all the other folks at APOD. It's the first site I visit when I start my desktop. Thanks.

My point: Aeronautics

NASA's responsibilities includes terrestrial flight, flight safety, terrestrial weather, ...

Its not the NSA.

BMAONE23 · Post by **BMAONE23** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:46 pm

Dr. Skeptic wrote:Do you know what NASA is an acronym for?

Would it make you happy if the name of the site was changed to:

APODAOPRN

Astronomy picture of the day and other pictures relevant to NASA?

As long as they don't call it
Astronomy Pictures Of the Day And Pictures Otherwise Relavent to NASA
APODAPORN

iamlucky13 · Post by **iamlucky13** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:18 pm

craterchains wrote:It is our tax dollars and grant monies that they are spending at their respective "whims".

Frankly, I'm happy to spend $0.000001 of tax money per image to learn something about stars, nebulae, planets, comets, galaxies, clouds, airplanes, etc.

We ask for pertinent data, and we get "pretty pictures" instead? Give us the freaking size indicators in the images for a good change, or at least get the wording correct in what yah write.

I've always been of the opinion that part of APOD's appeal is that it keeps things simple enough for the common man. There are images where such information is appropriate, but not always easy to add. Remember, the gentlemen who edit APOD have day jobs, which ought to be their first priority. That said, they do a pretty good job of providing links to related information so that the more educated or curious readers can go deeper into topic. Frequently questions of scale, distance, or wavelength can be answered by checking out a few of these links. But APOD is not a research site. It's educational, so such information does not seem imperative to that mission.