APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 5465
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by APOD Robot » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:06 am

Image The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509

Explanation: What is causing the picturesque ripples of supernova remnant SNR 0509-67.5? The ripples, as well as the greater nebula, were imaged in unprecedented detail by the Hubble Space Telescope in 2006 and again late last year. The red color was recoded by a Hubble filter that left only the light emitted by energetic hydrogen. The precise reason for the ripples remains unknown, with two considered origin hypotheses relating them to relatively dense portions of either ejected or impacted gas. The reason for the broader red glowing ring is more clear, with expansion speed and light echos relating it to a classic Type Ia supernova explosion that must have occurred about 400 years earlier. SNR 0509 currently spans about 23 light years and lies about 160,000 light years away toward the constellation of the dolphinfish (Dorado) in the Large Magellanic Cloud. The expanding ring carries with it another great mystery, however: why wasn't this supernova seen 400 years ago when light from the initial blast should have passed the Earth?

<< Previous APODDiscuss Any APOD Next APOD >>
[/b]

User avatar
mexhunter
Science Officer
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:41 pm
AKA: César Cantú
Location: Monterrey, Mexico.

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by mexhunter » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:14 am

Incredible shapes and textures that gives us the universe.
Greetings
César
I come to learn and to have fun.

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21587
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by bystander » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:35 am

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
— Garrison Keillor

User avatar
owlice
Guardian of the Codes
Posts: 8406
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:18 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by owlice » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:41 am

That is a stunner; wow!!!
A closed mouth gathers no foot.

davidgin50

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by davidgin50 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:50 am

"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?

questionfromBill

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by questionfromBill » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:22 pm

Why is it shaped like a ring rather than a sphere?

Hawkings

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Hawkings » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:24 pm

Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...

msquared

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by msquared » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:45 pm

Since the 'edge' of the explosion is so precise, maybe the explosion resulted in a very short burst of brilliant light lasting only a few days and therefore 'missed' by anyone in a position of keeping records.

User avatar
NoelC
Creepy Spock
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:30 am
Location: South Florida, USA; I just work in (cyber)space

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by NoelC » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:42 pm

Bill, it's really a (somewhat imperfect) bubble but it looks like a ring because we're looking at/through more gas around the edges. Note the slight lightening as you move in from the edges.

Hawkings, it happened 400 years ago "our time", or 160,400 years ago in some "absolute" sense that a being (or our imaginations) living outside the dimensions of our relativistic universe might perceive.

-Noel
Last edited by NoelC on Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 9180
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by geckzilla » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:58 pm

Today this is my birthday bubble. :D
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

isoparix

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by isoparix » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:59 pm

davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?

And if the weather down there, then, was anything like the weather in the Northern Hemisphere, here, now, they wouldn't have seen anything for weeks!

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Around the rocks the rugged rascal ran.

Post by neufer » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:13 pm

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/s/singin-in-the-rain-script.html wrote:
''Around the rocks the rugged rascal ran. ''

-Around the rocks the rugged--
-No, no. Rocks. Rocks.

Around the rocks the rugged rascal ran.

-Very good. Now. ''Sinful Caesar sipped his snifter. . . seized his knees and sneezed. ''

-Sinful Caesar snipped his sifter--

-Sipped his snifter.

Sipped his snifter. Oh, thank you.

Sinful Caesar sipped his snifter, seized his knees and sneezed.

-Marvelous. -Wonderful.

Here is a good one.

''Chester chooses chestnuts, cheddar cheese with chewy chives.
He chews them and he chooses them. He chooses them and he chews them. . .
. . .those chestnuts, cheddar cheese and chives in cheery, charming chunks. ''

-Wonderful! Do another one. -Thank you.

''Moses supposes his toeses are roses. . .but Moses supposes erroneously.
Moses, he knowses his toeses aren't roses. . .as Moses supposes his toeses to be. ''
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Gie geckzilla a haggis!

Post by neufer » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:39 pm

Image
geckzilla wrote:
Today this is my birthday bubble. :D
January Births:
  • * 1627 – Robert Boyle, Irish chemist (d. 1691)
    * 1736 – Joseph Louis Lagrange, Italian-born mathematician (d. 1813)
    * 1759 – Robert Burns, Scottish poet (d. 1796)
    * 1874 – W. Somerset Maugham, English writer (d. 1965)
    * 1882 – Virginia Woolf, English writer (d. 1941)
    * 1917 – Ilya Prigogine, Russian scientist Nobel Laureate (d. 2003)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burns_supper wrote:
<<A Burns supper is a celebration of the life and poetry of the poet Robert Burns normally held on or near the poet's birthday, 25 January. They held the first Burns supper on what they thought was his birthday on 29 January 1802, but in 1803 discovered from the Ayr parish records that the correct date was 25 January 1759, and since then suppers have been held to 25 January, Burns' birthday. Informal suppers typically include haggis, Scotch whisky and the recitation of Burns' poetry. Formal dinners are hosted by organisations such as the Freemasons or St Andrews Societies.

Entrance of the haggis:

Everyone stands as the main course is brought in. This is always a haggis on a large dish. It is usually brought in by the cook, generally while a piper plays bagpipes and leads the way to the host's table, where the haggis is laid down. He/she might play 'A man's a man for a' that', 'Robbie Burns Medley' or 'The Star O' Robbie Burns'. The host, or perhaps a guest with a talent, then recites the Address To a Haggis:
  • Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
    Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!
    Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
    Painch, tripe, or thairm:
    Weel are ye wordy o' a grace
    As lang's my arm.
    Image
    Ye Pow'rs wha mak mankind your care,
    And dish them out their bill o' fare,
    Auld Scotland wants nae skinkin ware
    That jaups in luggies;
    But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer,
    Gie her a haggis!
Finally everyone is asked to stand, join hands, and sing Auld Lang Syne.>>
Art Neuendorffer

Stevenson

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Stevenson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:54 pm

Hawkings wrote:Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...


I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated. :)

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by neufer » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:00 pm

Stevenson wrote:
Hawkings wrote:
Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...

I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated. :)
The supernova happened 160,400 years ago and it should have been seen on earth 400 years ago.

A bright Ia supernova would have been at peak magnitude -0.8 for a short period of time.

The Chinese would probably have recorded it but it was too far south for them.
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
rstevenson
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posts: 2705
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by rstevenson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:11 pm

Imagine the explosion taking place 160,400 years ago, resulting in this lovely ring reaching this stage of its formation about 400 years after that, or about 160,000 years ago. The light from the explosion takes 160,000 years to travel to Earth, getting here about 400 years ago (where it is apparently missed by all who might have recorded it.) The light from the ring also takes 160,000 years to get here -- and here it is. ;-)

Rob

Oops! I see neufer beat me to it.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18406
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:02 pm

Stevenson wrote:
Hawkings wrote:Why wasn't it seen 400 years ago? You said it was 160,000 light years away. That means the light from the super nova would take 160,000 years to get here, therefore the supernova happened more than 160,000 years ago, not 400...

I have the same question and no disrespect but a bit better/more detailed answer shall be greatly appreciated. :)
"When" an event happens can be defined in different ways. The vast majority of time, the only definition that is really useful is when that event is observed. So most of the time, this is what is meant when a time is given. There is no correction for the distance, because it doesn't matter. We can say this supernova happened 400 years ago, because in a very real sense, it did.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

starfalcon222

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by starfalcon222 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:13 pm

dunno what the time period of the visible event might have been, however, the folks might have been busy with the English, the Spanish, the weather, plague, or other more pressing busness.

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18406
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:25 pm

starfalcon222 wrote:dunno what the time period of the visible event might have been, however, the folks might have been busy with the English, the Spanish, the weather, plague, or other more pressing busness.
At that time, anything visible mainly from the southern hemisphere was much more likely to go unseen by anybody in a position to record it for posterity.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

Mikey

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Mikey » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:40 pm

Coulds the rings have formed by "shepherding" objects orbiting the star and the wavy shapes in the rings formed as the outer shell of the supernova passed through the orbits of those objects.

User avatar
bystander
Apathetic Retiree
Posts: 21587
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:06 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by bystander » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:41 pm

Click to play embedded YouTube video.
Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
— Garrison Keillor

Guest

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:54 pm

The ring is an illusion much in the same way the twilight horizon becomes red. It is actually a ball and not a ring. When the gasses expanded beyond other stars and planets the gravity distorted the near perfect look, thus the ripple effect. Awesome photo.

User avatar
BMAONE23
Commentator Model 1.23
Posts: 4076
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by BMAONE23 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:02 pm

davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 18406
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by Chris Peterson » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:08 pm

BMAONE23 wrote:
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses
Yeah. In the northern hemisphere. Most of the southern hemisphere masses couldn't read, and didn't even have writing systems.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 18805
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: The Rippled Red Ribbons of SNR 0509 (2011 Jan 25)

Post by neufer » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:32 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
BMAONE23 wrote:
davidgin50 wrote:"why wasn't it seen 400 years ago" Maybe it was but how many people were capable of leaving written records of such events in the Southern Hemisphere in 1611?
1611 is when the King James version of the bible was published for the masses
Yeah. In the northern hemisphere.
Most of the southern hemisphere masses couldn't read, and didn't even have writing systems.
They wouldn't be using the KJV for Masses in any event.
Art Neuendorffer