APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
User avatar
APOD Robot
Otto Posterman
Posts: 3547
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:27 am

APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by APOD Robot » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:11 am

Image Return at Sunrise

Explanation: Thursday, shortly after local sunrise over central Asia, this Soyuz spacecraft floated over a sea of golden clouds during its descent by parachute through planet Earth's dense atmosphere. On board were Expedition 42 commander Barry Wilmore of NASA and Alexander Samokutyaev and Elena Serova of the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos). Touch down was at approximately 10:07 p.m. EDT (8:07 a.m. March 12, Kazakh time) southeast of Zhezkazgan, Kazakhstan. The three were returning from low Earth orbit, after almost six months on the International Space Station as members of the Expedition 41 and Expedition 42 crews.

<< Previous APOD This Day in APOD Next APOD >>
[/b]

M.A.

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by M.A. » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:16 am

Why does the sun look like a great big lightbulb in the sky in this picture?

User avatar
owlice
Guardian of the Codes
Posts: 8350
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:18 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by owlice » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:28 am

I love this photo! A stunner!
A closed mouth gathers no foot.

Guest

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Guest » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:37 am

Lovely photo of smog over Kazakhstan.

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8959
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:01 am

Guest wrote:Lovely photo of smog over Kazakhstan.
Those are water clouds. Huge difference.
Edit: And it occurs to me you're referring to the sunset sunrise colors. But that's still just the Earth's atmosphere and the coloration is due to Rayleigh scattering. Still not smog.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:58 am

M.A. wrote:Why does the sun look like a great big lightbulb in the sky in this picture?
I was going to ask the same thing. Sol also looks like a hot air balloon. Does this have something to do with observing the Sun from high altitude?

Bruce
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

hoohaw

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by hoohaw » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:08 am

Fast-forward from 1957 October to 2015 March....
Fast-forward from my being a 17-year old freshman at the University of Toronto, to my being a 75-year old semi-retired Astronomy Professor.
Fast-forward from the Russians astonishing the world, and humiliating the United States, to ...

User avatar
RedFishBlueFish
Science Officer
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:33 am
Location: Texas

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by RedFishBlueFish » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:23 am

Peaceful Descent from Unity to Chaos.

Sad that the capsule will soon be bringing the occupants back to the ridiculous and artificial divisions which lie beneath this tranquil sea of clouds.

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8959
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:37 pm

BDanielMayfield wrote:
M.A. wrote:Why does the sun look like a great big lightbulb in the sky in this picture?
I was going to ask the same thing. Sol also looks like a hot air balloon. Does this have something to do with observing the Sun from high altitude?
I think it's just a camera optics artifact. Just does not look like an ice pillar or anything like that.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:50 pm

hoohaw wrote:Fast-forward from 1957 October to 2015 March....
Fast-forward from my being a 17-year old freshman at the University of Toronto, to my being a 75-year old semi-retired Astronomy Professor.
You just became more interesting hoohaw. Why don't you become a registered member?
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

Dad is watching

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Dad is watching » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:50 pm

The clouds look just like a lake with ripples or waves on it. Any ideas as to the scale, wind velocity, 'wave height' and the peak-to-peak distance? Is the 'ridge' going from lower right to upper left caused by ground-effects or some sort of wind sheer? I would have thought that they would have picked a really big, really flat area for the target 'crash-down' sight. Also, I hope there is a backup for that one parachute...

BDanielMayfield
Don't bring me down
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:24 am
AKA: Bruce
Location: East Idaho

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by BDanielMayfield » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:53 pm

geckzilla wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:
M.A. wrote:Why does the sun look like a great big lightbulb in the sky in this picture?
I was going to ask the same thing. Sol also looks like a hot air balloon. Does this have something to do with observing the Sun from high altitude?
I think it's just a camera optics artifact. Just does not look like an ice pillar or anything like that.
Thanks. It would have had to have been a very fast exposure too ...
"Happy are the peaceable ... "

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15967
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by neufer » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:46 pm

geckzilla wrote:
BDanielMayfield wrote:
M.A. wrote:
Why does the sun look like a great big lightbulb in the sky in this picture?
I was going to ask the same thing. Sol also looks like a hot air balloon.
Does this have something to do with observing the Sun from high altitude?
I think it's just a camera optics artifact. Just does not look like an ice pillar or anything like that.
It sorta looks like an ice pillar or something like that:
http://www.sundogcoaching.com/uploads/1 ... 0_orig.jpg
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14350
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:03 pm

geckzilla wrote:I think it's just a camera optics artifact. Just does not look like an ice pillar or anything like that.
I agree, it's not an atmospheric effect. Not in the camera, either, I think. I'd say it's scatter off the sleeks which are always present on the surface of aircraft windows.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Jim Armstrong

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Jim Armstrong » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:59 pm

I came over from the APOD to see if the sun as lightbulb question had been asked and answered.
Of course it had.
Unfortunately I can't find out what a sleek is.
Is it inside or outside? Does it come with the window or develop later? Are they friendly?

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14350
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:10 pm

Jim Armstrong wrote:I came over from the APOD to see if the sun as lightbulb question had been asked and answered.
Of course it had.
Unfortunately I can't find out what a sleek is.
Is it inside or outside? Does it come with the window or develop later? Are they friendly?
Sleeks are very fine, long scratches on plastic or glass- typically with widths on the same order or just a bit longer than light wavelengths. They create interesting optical artifacts (and are the bane of amateur astronomers trying to clean telescope mirrors). They are created by wiping the surface when it has abrasive dust particles on it. Depending on how the wiping is performed, you can have circular sleeks or straight ones, which tend to be aligned. In addition to scattering light, they can also diffract it, acting like a grating.

Airplane windows usually have a plastic film on the inside surface, which is much softer than glass and acquires sleeks very easily.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15967
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by neufer » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:39 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:
Jim Armstrong wrote:
I came over from the APOD to see if the sun as lightbulb question had been asked and answered.
Of course it had.
Unfortunately I can't find out what a sleek is.
Is it inside or outside? Does it come with the window or develop later? Are they friendly?
Sleeks are very fine, long scratches on plastic or glass- typically with widths on the same order or just a bit longer than light wavelengths. They create interesting optical artifacts (and are the bane of amateur astronomers trying to clean telescope mirrors). They are created by wiping the surface when it has abrasive dust particles on it. Depending on how the wiping is performed, you can have circular sleeks or straight ones, which tend to be aligned. In addition to scattering light, they can also diffract it, acting like a grating.

Airplane windows usually have a plastic film on the inside surface, which is much softer than glass and acquires sleeks very easily.
Sleeks in all different directions perhaps.

It's a sun pillar: http://www.glorie.de/sonstiges/subsun.jpg

http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uplo ... nomena.jpg
Art Neuendorffer

User avatar
Chris Peterson
Abominable Snowman
Posts: 14350
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: Guffey, Colorado, USA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:46 pm

neufer wrote:It's a sun pillar
Maybe. But I don't think so. It doesn't really look like one to me. I'm going with scratches on the window based on what I see. I've taken images out of windows that produce exactly this same artifact. And I've shot quite a few sun and moon pillars, as well, which don't look quite like this.
Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8959
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by geckzilla » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:53 pm

Chris Peterson wrote:I agree, it's not an atmospheric effect. Not in the camera, either, I think. I'd say it's scatter off the sleeks which are always present on the surface of aircraft windows.
Ah, yeah, for some reason I was imagining he was shooting through an open side in the helicopter. Probably not, on further thought!
neufer wrote:Sleeks in all different directions perhaps.

It's a sun pillar: http://www.glorie.de/sonstiges/subsun.jpg

http://blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uplo ... nomena.jpg
Can you not see the differences between the sun pillars you've posted and the effect present photo?
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

User avatar
neufer
Vacationer at Tralfamadore
Posts: 15967
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by neufer » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:46 am

geckzilla wrote:
Can you not see the differences between the sun pillars you've posted and the effect present photo?
Todays APOD sun pillar is:
  • 1) not quite so overexposed

    2) using a telephoto lens so that one can't see the sun dogs.
Art Neuendorffer

Mactavish
Ensign
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: California

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by Mactavish » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:13 am

I’m relieved that the guy who packed the parachute was paying close attention to what he was doing!

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8959
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:44 am

neufer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Can you not see the differences between the sun pillars you've posted and the effect present photo?
Todays APOD sun pillar is:
  • 1) not quite so overexposed

    2) using a telephoto lens so that one can't see the sun dogs.
Ok, so if you think the Soyuz picture is overexposed, how is it that there really isn't much of a sun pillar there at all? It's not like a longer exposure makes the sun pillar go away. It should appear longer and more obvious. It's just right next to the sun which is exactly where one might expect some kind of smearing from the window to be.

I know you think it can't possibly be scratches on the window or otherwise you wouldn't be so sure about it being a sun pillar, because you think that random scratches all over will result in rays evenly in more than one direction. But if you search for images of the sun through a car window you can find a few examples of the sun doing this. I have also thought that the presence of gravity and the constant blowing of wind could cause water droplets or other substances on the window to become aligned. Anyway, I'm not convinced it's a sundog.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

bingalls

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by bingalls » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:27 am

I'm the photographer that made this image - I was asked if I could stop by this discussion and share some more about how it was made...

This was shot out of an open helicopter door at approximately 6-7,000 feet. No windows between my lens and the subject, just some pretty cold air. :)

Here is my camera EXIF data:
Nikon D4
ISO Speed - 800
Date and Time (Original) - 2015:03:12 08:05:51
Metering Mode - Multi-segment
Focal Plane X-Resolution - 1368.888885
Focal Plane Y-Resolution - 1368.888885
Focal Plane Resolution Unit - cm
White Balance - Manual
Focal Length (35mm format) - 98 mm
Subject Distance Range - Unknown
Lens Info - 80-400mm f4.5-5.6

As you will see in this set of images there are others with this effect from the Sun and at various directions. I could not tell you if it was introduced by the camera/lens or not, but I think it may be. You can see all images from this event here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqpho ... 0846481517

Hope this helps or at least helps to narrow down the possibilities.

Cheers - Bill Ingalls

bingalls

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by bingalls » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:27 am

Sorry - mean to include full exposure:

ISO 800
Shutter 1/4000
f-Stop = f11

User avatar
geckzilla
Ocular Digitator
Posts: 8959
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: Modesto, CA

Re: APOD: Return at Sunrise (2015 Mar 14)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:32 am

Thanks, Bill. That's excellent. Knowing there was no window (hey, my original assumption was right!) and then this image settles it. There's not much more to say except you've got something unique going on with your optics causing that streak.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.