APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

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APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:10 am

Image The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I

Explanation: The deepest infrared image of the Orion Nebula has uncovered a bonanza of previously unknown low-mass stars and -- quite possibly -- free floating planets. The picturesque nebula is best known in visible light where it shows a many bright stars and bright glowing gas. Catalogued as M42, the Orion Nebula at a distance of 1300 light years is the closest major star forming region to Earth. One can peer into Orion's pervasive dust in infrared light, as was done again recently with the sophisticated HAWK-I camera attached to one of the [url=http://www.eso.org"/>European Southern Observatory's <a href="http://www.eso.org/public/usa/teles-instr/paranal/]Very Large Telescopes[/url] in the high mountains of Chile. High resolution versions of the featured infrared deep image show many points of light, many of which are surely brown dwarf stars but some of which are best fit by an unexpectedly high abundance of free-floating planets. Understanding how these low mass objects formed is important to understanding star formation generally and may even help humanity to better understand the early years of our Solar System.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by Ann » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:29 am

This is an interesting APOD. I prefer the one that has been processed by Rob Gendler. I love the fact that a long, red streamer of gas and dust seems to flow directly into the still-forming intermediate to high mass star to the northeast of the Trapezium - the hidden star looks like a small reddish nebula close to the center of the image.

It is of course interesting that so many low-mass stars and possibly even planets have been found in this region. (Personally I have to wonder if the Orion Nebula produces a unusually large number of small stars and planets in relation to the high-mass stars it has formed. I remember that there was speculation that the Orion Nebula ought to have formed more high-mass stars than seems to be present, and that one or more high-mass stars might have turned into a black hole in the Trapezium region.)

In any case, it is worth remembering that our own Sun might well have formed in a region similar to the Orion Nebula, so we have good reasons to study this relatively nearby site of star formation carefully.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:58 am

Rob certainly did a good job pulling a lot of detail out of the shadows. One thing I do like about ESO's version is the warm red strip on the left, and the way it and the bright core of Orion stand out as focal points.

I find my college education in design often conflicts with the aesthetic aspirations I've discovered within the astrophotography community. It's probably the thing that causes me to butt heads with astro people over these things. One of the things drilled into me was that if everything is emphasized, nothing is emphasized. Because of this, I sometimes tend to allow details to fade gently into the background and don't mind if not everyone catches them. A lot of astro people might call this bad work. Of course, ESO's image doesn't quite do this, but rather some of the details have been obliterated entirely.
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:30 am

Today's APOD is very Beautiful! :D
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by NCTom » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:44 am

There are so many mini-dramas in this picture: shock waves, apparent bubbles, stars blowing away their natal clouds. Gorgeous!

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by bystander » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:45 pm

Know the quiet place within your heart and touch the rainbow of possibility; be
alive to the gentle breeze of communication, and please stop being such a jerk.
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by Coil_Smoke » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:45 pm

Truly stunning and different. Wow has ground based astronomy improved. Today's pinnacle of professional picture production follows yesterday's apex of amateur astronomy. Does today's description say "free floating planets" are imaged in this photograph? I did not think that possible and figured space based telescopes would be first to reach that milestone.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by Fred the Cat » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:01 pm

Free floating planets? Many scenarios have transpired in our distant past which shaped or may occur in our future which will reshape our solar system. A quick check of the closest brown dwarf and, timewise, a potential recent passage of star system show us that this planetary system we live in may not always be the cozy, warm and fuzzy place we frequently take for granted. We or the sun's life span may be our demise but I suspect we are only beginning to learn what other dangers lurk in the heart of darkness.

Ironically some choose to use terror when the word's true definition could come from factions outside our control. Equally ironic we continue to love to search for them. Better the devil you know:?
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by Ann » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:39 pm

Geck wrote:
One thing I do like about ESO's version is the warm red strip on the left, and the way it and the bright core of Orion stand out as focal points.
I'd call that strip strikingly orange... but it certainly caught my eye, too. It is fascinating, and I like the way it stands out.

Do you know what it is, and why it is so different from everything else here, Geck? Are we just seeing some very deeply embedded protostars?

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:46 pm

geckzilla wrote:Rob certainly did a good job pulling a lot of detail out of the shadows. One thing I do like about ESO's version is the warm red strip on the left, and the way it and the bright core of Orion stand out as focal points.

I find my college education in design often conflicts with the aesthetic aspirations I've discovered within the astrophotography community. It's probably the thing that causes me to butt heads with astro people over these things. One of the things drilled into me was that if everything is emphasized, nothing is emphasized. Because of this, I sometimes tend to allow details to fade gently into the background and don't mind if not everyone catches them. A lot of astro people might call this bad work. Of course, ESO's image doesn't quite do this, but rather some of the details have been obliterated entirely.
I've always been a fan of your slightly understated but bold style and you don't have to feel bad about doing things "your" way as that is one of the greatest strengths of astrophotography and image processing, having an individual style. Also with your interesting life, have you ever met anyone famous?

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:50 pm

Ann wrote:Do you know what it is, and why it is so different from everything else here, Geck? Are we just seeing some very deeply embedded protostars?
I would say it's a younger part of the nebula, or perhaps an area that was slower to evolve. I don't know if there is any way of knowing which. In star forming regions, things start out in tight knots of material which often form linear structures. I've seen a bunch of these in WISE data. You can bet money that any dark, black dusty area around a star forming area in visible light is actually full of YSOs. As you know, when stars are born they blow their natal clouds away and you can see that happening in the bright areas where a bubble has formed. The young stellar objects of the tight knots simply haven't yet matured into stars capable of producing those driving winds yet. Just a bunch of very red objects in other words. None of your favorite blue ones yet.
starsurfer wrote:Also with your interesting life, have you ever met anyone famous?
Depends on how you define famous. I have exchanged various tiny interactions via email between a handful of astronomers, some of which you may know the names of. Emily Lakdawalla and Phil Plait interact with me sometimes on Twitter.
Just call me "geck" because "zilla" is like a last name.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:14 pm

geckzilla wrote:
starsurfer wrote:Also with your interesting life, have you ever met anyone famous?
Depends on how you define famous. I have exchanged various tiny interactions via email between a handful of astronomers, some of which you may know the names of. Emily Lakdawalla and Phil Plait interact with me sometimes on Twitter.
Well I meant physically meeting them. I like Emily Lakdawalla, there is something so earnest and sincere about what she does, I would love to meet her! Phil Plait is a cool guy, I used to follow his blog a few years ago, his sense of humour is amusing!

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:57 pm

starsurfer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
starsurfer wrote:Also with your interesting life, have you ever met anyone famous?
Depends on how you define famous. I have exchanged various tiny interactions via email between a handful of astronomers, some of which you may know the names of. Emily Lakdawalla and Phil Plait interact with me sometimes on Twitter.
Well I meant physically meeting them. I like Emily Lakdawalla, there is something so earnest and sincere about what she does, I would love to meet her! Phil Plait is a cool guy, I used to follow his blog a few years ago, his sense of humour is amusing!
I went to Harvard and ate pizza once with owlice??
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by owlice » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:30 am

:: falls over laughing! ::
A closed mouth gathers no foot.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:49 pm

geckzilla wrote:
starsurfer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:
Depends on how you define famous. I have exchanged various tiny interactions via email between a handful of astronomers, some of which you may know the names of. Emily Lakdawalla and Phil Plait interact with me sometimes on Twitter.
Well I meant physically meeting them. I like Emily Lakdawalla, there is something so earnest and sincere about what she does, I would love to meet her! Phil Plait is a cool guy, I used to follow his blog a few years ago, his sense of humour is amusing!
I went to Harvard and ate pizza once with owlice??
That definitely counts! Also wow you went Harvard, cool! Were you part of any secret societies? Out of curiosity, what pizza was it, homemade or takeaway? I really like food!

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:50 pm

owlice wrote::: falls over laughing! ::
For you here's a nice owly prize:

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:28 pm

starsurfer wrote:That definitely counts! Also wow you went Harvard, cool! Were you part of any secret societies? Out of curiosity, what pizza was it, homemade or takeaway? I really like food!
No secret societies, just a library that wasn't even lit by candle. There were some observation domes since we were in the astronomy department. Pizza was from a local pizza maker. I forgot their name.
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by robgendler » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:58 pm

geckzilla wrote:Rob certainly did a good job pulling a lot of detail out of the shadows. One thing I do like about ESO's version is the warm red strip on the left, and the way it and the bright core of Orion stand out as focal points.

I find my college education in design often conflicts with the aesthetic aspirations I've discovered within the astrophotography community. It's probably the thing that causes me to butt heads with astro people over these things. One of the things drilled into me was that if everything is emphasized, nothing is emphasized. Because of this, I sometimes tend to allow details to fade gently into the background and don't mind if not everyone catches them. A lot of astro people might call this bad work. Of course, ESO's image doesn't quite do this, but rather some of the details have been obliterated entirely.
Sorry to inform you but more than a few other astrophotographers (probably well before you ever began processing) have emphasized a "less is more" processing philosophy. I also have a chapter on aesthetics in my book on processing that discusses in length the importance of focal point and visual flow in rendering astronomical images. Sorry to break your bubble however there are many skilled astronomical image processors that precede you. BTW it is possible to strike a balance between elevating shadow detail and preserving a focal point.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:36 pm

I don't think you are sorry to inform or condescend me about anything, Rob. I very much appreciate the work of all who have come before me, in case there is any doubt about that. I am beginning to appreciate you less, though, as you seem to think I am a nobody who needs to keep in her low, low place of knowing nothing and offering nothing of value to add to astro imaging because I have been doing this for a few years instead of a few decades.
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:56 pm

robgendler wrote:
geckzilla wrote:Rob certainly did a good job pulling a lot of detail out of the shadows. One thing I do like about ESO's version is the warm red strip on the left, and the way it and the bright core of Orion stand out as focal points.

I find my college education in design often conflicts with the aesthetic aspirations I've discovered within the astrophotography community. It's probably the thing that causes me to butt heads with astro people over these things. One of the things drilled into me was that if everything is emphasized, nothing is emphasized. Because of this, I sometimes tend to allow details to fade gently into the background and don't mind if not everyone catches them. A lot of astro people might call this bad work. Of course, ESO's image doesn't quite do this, but rather some of the details have been obliterated entirely.
Sorry to inform you but more than a few other astrophotographers (probably well before you ever began processing) have emphasized a "less is more" processing philosophy. I also have a chapter on aesthetics in my book on processing that discusses in length the importance of focal point and visual flow in rendering astronomical images. Sorry to break your bubble however there are many skilled astronomical image processors that precede you. BTW it is possible to strike a balance between elevating shadow detail and preserving a focal point.
Well I like both Rob and Judy but this comment seems a bit personally motivated. All Judy was doing was expressing her opinion on her own personal journey through astrophotography and her own outwards perspective. Your books are also good as well but you should word your response a little bit differently, I consider Judy to be a really nice person.

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:58 pm

geckzilla wrote:I don't think you are sorry to inform or condescend me about anything, Rob. I very much appreciate the work of all who have come before me, in case there is any doubt about that. I am beginning to appreciate you less, though, as you seem to think I am a nobody who needs to keep in her low, low place of knowing nothing and offering nothing of value to add to astro imaging because I have been doing this for a few years instead of a few decades.
I don't know if you'll care but I appreciate what you do, especially increasing the profile of less known deep sky objects in your gallery, a mission I consider very important. Have you ever thought of doing a talk or presentation about processing professional data?

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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by geckzilla » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:09 pm

starsurfer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:I don't think you are sorry to inform or condescend me about anything, Rob. I very much appreciate the work of all who have come before me, in case there is any doubt about that. I am beginning to appreciate you less, though, as you seem to think I am a nobody who needs to keep in her low, low place of knowing nothing and offering nothing of value to add to astro imaging because I have been doing this for a few years instead of a few decades.
I don't know if you'll care but I appreciate what you do, especially increasing the profile of less known deep sky objects in your gallery, a mission I consider very important. Have you ever thought of doing a talk or presentation about processing professional data?
Something I've been working a little on http://photographingspace.com/download-hubble-data/
I have maybe 2/3 of the second one written. I don't think I am experienced enough with public speaking to do that sort of thing.
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Re: APOD: The Orion Nebula in Infrared from HAWK-I (2016 Jul 18)

Post by starsurfer » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:05 pm

geckzilla wrote:
starsurfer wrote:
geckzilla wrote:I don't think you are sorry to inform or condescend me about anything, Rob. I very much appreciate the work of all who have come before me, in case there is any doubt about that. I am beginning to appreciate you less, though, as you seem to think I am a nobody who needs to keep in her low, low place of knowing nothing and offering nothing of value to add to astro imaging because I have been doing this for a few years instead of a few decades.
I don't know if you'll care but I appreciate what you do, especially increasing the profile of less known deep sky objects in your gallery, a mission I consider very important. Have you ever thought of doing a talk or presentation about processing professional data?
Something I've been working a little on http://photographingspace.com/download-hubble-data/
I have maybe 2/3 of the second one written. I don't think I am experienced enough with public speaking to do that sort of thing.
That's a good article, I especially like the comparison between reprocessing old data with new tools. Well if you start doing public speaking, then you'll acquire experience! :D