APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Comments and questions about the APOD on the main view screen.
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APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:06 am

[img]https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/calendar/S_210802.jpg[/img] The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light and Sound

Explanation: Have you heard about the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field? Either way, you've likely not heard about it like this -- please run your cursor over the featured image and listen! The Hubble Ultra-Deep Field (HUDF) was created in 2003-2004 with the Hubble Space Telescope staring for a long time toward near-empty space so that distant, faint galaxies would become visible. One of the most famous images in astronomy, the HUDF is featured here in a vibrant way -- with sonified distances. Pointing to a galaxy will play a note that indicates its approximate redshift. Because redshifts shift light toward the red end of the spectrum of light, they are depicted here by a shift of tone toward the low end of the spectrum of sound. The further the galaxy, the greater its cosmological redshift (even if it appears blue), and the lower the tone that will be played. The average galaxy in the HUDF is about 10.6 billion light years away and sounds like an F#. What's the most distant galaxy you can find?

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by r2d2b2@comcast.net » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:46 am

Found two at 12.9 after a few minutes.

Brewvet

Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Brewvet » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:22 am

I found 2 tiny red galaxies at 13.1 LY.

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Ann » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:29 am

Great! :D But I have a complaint! :evil:

Hubble Deep Field audio.png
Hubble Deep Field audio II.png

How far is the relatively bright red galaxy that is near the center of the circle (and is positioned at the end of a line of mostly white galaxies) in the picture at left? I can only see that it is .7 billion -years away!

How far is the much fainter reddish galaxy near the bottom left corner? I think it is 13.1 billion light-years away, but can I be sure?

I found another galaxy that is definitely 13.1 billion light-years away. It is an elongated small red galaxy below center that looks like a comet. But it is only the "tail" that is 13.1 billion light-years away.

Ann
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Sbbrush » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:59 am

I, too, have found 2 galaxies 13.1 billion light years distant.

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by JohnD » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am

Is this for blind astronomers? I have no doubt there are some, and good luck to them!

Rather than how far, 'What'? What is the object almost in the centre of the field, that looks like a diagonal bar of light?

There is a single bar just above it, and several others elsewhere in diofferent orientations, which I take to be galaxies seen, side-on.
But what is this?
Hubble deep field centre.png
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by rstevenson » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 am

I see the note that says “Sounds will only play on some browsers.” I can’t hear the sounds on my 2020 iPad, which is odd. Why odd? Because there've been over half a billion iPads sold since they were introduced 11 years ago, and WebKit, the browser engine which runs the Safari browser (as well as Chrome in iOS) is the most used browser engine on tablet computers worldwide. You’d think that would be enough to encourage the creators of this version of the HUDF to make sure the sound can be heard on such devices. Oh well.

[edit, about a half-hour later]
Just checked in Safari and Firefox in Mac OS on my iMac. Safari didn't play the sounds while Firefox did. So it's likely the Webkit engine -- used by Safari but not Firefox in Mac OS -- that isn't handling the sound file properly.

Rob
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Ann » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:09 am

JohnD wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:19 am
Is this for blind astronomers? I have no doubt there are some, and good luck to them!

Rather than how far, 'What'? What is the object almost in the centre of the field, that looks like a diagonal bar of light?

There is a single bar just above it, and several others elsewhere in diofferent orientations, which I take to be galaxies seen, side-on.
But what is this?
Yellow objects in Hubble Ultra Deep Field.png
Rectangular bar in NGC 7319.png

I think your mystery object looks quite a bit like two galaxies, one in front of the other.

But it might also, just maybe, be a barred galaxy with a long broad bright bar seen at a certain angle, particularly if the rest of the galaxy is quite faint.

Ann
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Conrad12n » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:33 am

Who (or what algorithm) computed the distance, and how were they computed? Faint blue fuzzies are further than yellow/orange fuzzies it seems.

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:48 am

Interesting; I found one that was 13.1 billion LY away; a couple 12.9
and another 12.8! Wow! 8-)
hudf_hst.jpg
And I found Kitty listening! :lol2:
3363f6be8a0b534cd852395723dd6700.jpg
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by brf » Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:56 am

For all the moaning and complaining in the comments, I think this is a really neat idea !!

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by rstevenson » Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:50 pm

brf wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:56 am
For all the moaning and complaining in the comments, I think this is a really neat idea !!
I don't see any moaning and complaining, just people who are very interested in this sort of thing talking to each other about it. And yes, it is a really neat idea.

Rob

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by gvann » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:52 pm

Maybe there's not much moaning and complaining, but there's surely not enough praise for whoever did this job. In my mind, this is not just a neat idea. This is a true work of art that must have required quite a bit of time and effort to put together! It's an imaginative and novel way of presenting data that is otherwise difficult to present. The fact that so many respondents are puzzled by this or that surprising feature shows how effective this technique is.

Clicking on the links in the web page, I see that well over thirty people were involved in making this happen. A heartfelt "thank you" goes to all of them, and to the APOD team that brought it to us!

JohnM

Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by JohnM » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:27 pm

I have found about 6 at 13.1 but nothing further than that it's difficult to find the deepest one visible as I am not sure what image they have used. It would also help if the JPEG image file had an astrometric calibration so it could be opened in Astronomy Data explorers such as Aladin

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by neufer » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:53 pm

  • z = 0.96 => F♯4 (370 Hz) => 10.6 Gly (comoving radial distance)

    z = 1089 => 0.666 Hz => Cosmic Microwave Background
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound wrote:
<<Infrasound, sometimes referred to as low-frequency sound, describes sound waves with a frequency below the lower limit of human audibility (generally 20 Hz). Hearing becomes gradually less sensitive as frequency decreases, so for humans to perceive infrasound, the sound pressure must be sufficiently high. The ear is the primary organ for sensing low sound, but at higher intensities it is possible to feel infrasound vibrations in various parts of the body. The study of such sound waves is sometimes referred to as infrasonics, covering sounds beneath 20 Hz down to 0.1 Hz. People use this frequency range for monitoring earthquakes and volcanoes, charting rock and petroleum formations below the earth, and also in ballistocardiography and seismocardiography to study the mechanics of the heart. Infrasound is characterized by an ability to get around obstacles with little dissipation.

Infrasound can result from both natural and man-made sources:

  • Natural events: infrasonic sound sometimes results naturally from severe weather, surf, lee waves, avalanches, earthquakes, volcanoes, bolides, waterfalls, calving of icebergs, aurorae, meteors, lightning and upper-atmospheric lightning. According to the Infrasonics Program at NOAA, infrasonic arrays can be used to locate avalanches in the Rocky Mountains, and to detect tornadoes on the high plains several minutes before they touch down.

    Nonlinear ocean wave interactions in ocean storms produce pervasive infrasound vibrations around 0.2 Hz, known as microbaroms. Microbaroms are a significant noise source that can potentially interfere with the detection of infrasound from nuclear explosions that is a goal of the International Monitoring System organized under the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty. It is a particular problem for detecting low-yield tests in the one-kiloton range because the frequency spectra overlap.


    Human created sources: infrasound can be generated by human processes such as sonic booms and explosions (both chemical and nuclear), or by machinery such as diesel engines, wind turbines and industrial vibration tables. Certain specialized loudspeaker designs are also able to reproduce extremely low frequencies; these include large-scale rotary woofer models of subwoofer loudspeaker, as well as large horn loaded, bass reflex, sealed and transmission line loudspeakers.

    Animal communication: whales, elephants, hippopotamuses, rhinoceroses, giraffes, okapis, peacocks, and alligators are known to use infrasound to communicate over distances—up to hundreds of miles in the case of whales. In particular, the Sumatran rhinoceros has been shown to produce sounds with frequencies as low as 3 Hz which have similarities with the song of the humpback whale. Elephants also produce infrasound waves that travel through solid ground and are sensed by other herds using their feet, although they may be separated by hundreds of kilometres. These calls may be used to coordinate the movement of herds and allow mating elephants to find each other.

Air is a very inefficient medium for transferring low frequency vibration from a transducer to the human body. Mechanical connection of the vibration source to the human body, however, provides a potentially dangerous combination. The U.S. space program, worried about the harmful effects of rocket flight on astronauts, ordered vibration tests that used cockpit seats mounted on vibration tables to transfer "brown note" and other frequencies directly to the human subjects. Very high power levels of 160 dB were achieved at frequencies of 2–3 Hz. Test frequencies ranged from 0.5 Hz to 40 Hz. Test subjects suffered motor ataxia, nausea, visual disturbance, degraded task performance and difficulties in communication. These tests are assumed by researchers to be the nucleus of the current urban myth. In February 2005 the television show MythBusters used twelve Meyer Sound 700-HP subwoofers—a model and quantity that has been employed for major rock concerts. Normal operating frequency range of the selected subwoofer model was 28 Hz to 150 Hz but the 12 enclosures at MythBusters had been specially modified for deeper bass extension. The subwoofers' tuning ports were blocked and their input cards were altered. The modified cabinets were positioned in an open ring configuration: four stacks of three subwoofers each. Test signals were generated by a SIM 3 audio analyzer, with its software modified to produce infrasonic tones. A Brüel & Kjær sound level analyzer, fed with an attenuated signal from a model 4189 measurement microphone, displayed and recorded sound pressure levels. The hosts on the show tried a series of frequencies as low as 5 Hz, attaining a level of 120 decibels of sound pressure at 9 Hz and up to 153 dB at frequencies above 20 Hz, but the rumored physiological effects did not materialize. The test subjects all reported some physical anxiety and shortness of breath, even a small amount of nausea, but this was dismissed by the hosts, noting that sound at that frequency and intensity moves air rapidly in and out of one's lungs.>>
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by bystander » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:00 pm

JohnM wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:27 pm
I have found about 6 at 13.1 but nothing further than that it's difficult to find the deepest one visible as I am not sure what image they have used. It would also help if the JPEG image file had an astrometric calibration so it could be opened in Astronomy Data explorers such as Aladin
Hubble Ultra Deep Field 2014
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:34 pm

Cute. I found a 12.9 redshifted galaxy, but can't find it again :)
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:46 pm

JohnM wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:27 pm
I have found about 6 at 13.1 but nothing further than that it's difficult to find the deepest one visible as I am not sure what image they have used. It would also help if the JPEG image file had an astrometric calibration so it could be opened in Astronomy Data explorers such as Aladin
The image is about 2 arcminutes on a side. There is probably nothing in it that is cataloged.

There is no standard way of including astrometric data in a JPEG file. In principle you could include WCS information in a comment field in the metadata, but without standardization on how to interpret that, no tools are going to be able to handle it.
Chris

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by Leon1949Green » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:01 pm

I found the two 12.9 in a moderately fast search, but not the 2-6 at 13.1. FUN!

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by MarkBour » Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:50 pm

neufer wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:53 pm
  • z = 0.96 => F♯4 (370 Hz) => 10.6 Gly (comoving radial distance)

    z = 1089 => 0.666 Hz => Cosmic Microwave Background
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound wrote:
. . . Air is a very inefficient medium for transferring low frequency vibration from a transducer to the human body. Mechanical connection of the vibration source to the human body, however, provides a potentially dangerous combination. The U.S. space program, worried about the harmful effects of rocket flight on astronauts, ordered vibration tests that used cockpit seats mounted on vibration tables to transfer "brown note" and other frequencies directly to the human subjects. . . .
It seems like an issue that NASA and others are well-advised to consider in the realm of space exploration.

We haven't had much experience with the harmful effects in our lives on Earth. Not too many people have found themselves subjected to harmful infrasound, happily. And in some cases, one can detect it well enough to feel like leaving an area, and then that's what the people or animals do to avoid it.
Click to play embedded YouTube video.


But in a space vessel, if some sufficiently intense infrasound were to arise from the mechanics of the craft, the astronauts might have no means of detecting it, no way of escaping it, and long exposure to it.


I guess that's just one more happy thing for them to worry about.
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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by neufer » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:53 pm

neufer wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:53 pm
  • z = 0.96 => F♯4 (370 Hz) => 10.6 Gly (comoving radial distance)
    z = 1089 => 0.666 Hz => Cosmic Microwave Background
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound wrote:
. . . Air is a very inefficient medium for transferring low frequency vibration from a transducer to the human body. Mechanical connection of the vibration source to the human body, however, provides a potentially dangerous combination. The U.S. space program, worried about the harmful effects of rocket flight on astronauts, ordered vibration tests that used cockpit seats mounted on vibration tables to transfer "brown note" and other frequencies directly to the human subjects. . . .
Click to play embedded YouTube video.
MarkBour wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:50 pm

It seems like an issue that NASA and others are well-advised to consider in the realm of space exploration. We haven't had much experience with the harmful effects in our lives on Earth. Not too many people have found themselves subjected to harmful infrasound, happily. And in some cases, one can detect it well enough to feel like leaving an area, and then that's what the people or animals do to avoid it. But in a space vessel, if some sufficiently intense infrasound were to arise from the mechanics of the craft, the astronauts might have no means of detecting it, no way of escaping it, and long exposure to it. I guess that's just one more happy thing for them to worry about.
Art Neuendorffer

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by JohnM » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:53 pm

Thanks bystander for the link - the NASA Hubble site images do not contain the astrometric reduction but your link gave me sufficient image to find the image on the ESA Hubble site - they and ESO have a policy of including astrometric data in their .JPG images where possible. The page I found the image on is at https://esahubble.org/images/heic1214a/ I am not sure if the .TIFF files include the astrometric reduction or not as the application I use to manipulate the .JPEG files Aladin https://aladin.u-strasbg.fr/ does not open TIFF files at present.

Chris Peterson said:

The image is about 2 arcminutes on a side. There is probably nothing in it that is cataloged.

There appear to be over 5k objects catalogued in the image - almost all galaxies. However the biggest redshift in the Simbad data base is http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-i ... &NbIdent=1 which has a redshift of only 11.8 so I presume they have used a different catalogue to generate the APOD image - need to hunt that down now !

There is no standard way of including astrometric data in a JPEG file. In principle you could include WCS information in a comment field in the metadata, but without standardization on how to interpret that, no tools are going to be able to handle it.

|In terms of including astrometric data in non-FITS image files there is a defaco standard that has not been ratified (largely because the developer was snatched by Google !) the proposal is at https://www.virtualastronomy.org/avm_metadata.php this is fairly widely used in Europe and also some other projects such as The Event Horizon Telescope have published their JPEGS with Astrometric reduction.

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by 2stepbay » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:42 pm

13.1. A mere walk in the galactic woods

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Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by neufer » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:17 pm

2stepbay wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:42 pm

13.1. A mere walk in the galactic woods
"If an astronaut falls in a galactic wood, does he make a sound when no one can here him scream :?: "
Art Neuendorffer

JohnM

Re: APOD: The Hubble Ultra Deep Field in Light... (2021 Aug 02)

Post by JohnM » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:03 am

I had a look at the NED data for the field and the greatest redshift appears to be an object with a redshift of 10.4 which would equate to a lookback of around 13.4 Gyr. However this does not appear to be in the sonification. There are several others with redshifts that give ages of 13.2 to 13.3 gYr but at a quick look I could not find those in the APOD sonification. It may be that 13.1 is the most distant they have encoded.

A clue to help those hunting 2 of the 13.1 gly are near the centre and the other 4 near the top left. The top left ones are small & red and the others slightly more orange.

John