APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

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APOD Robot
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APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by APOD Robot » Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:06 am

Image A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey

Explanation: An analemma is that figure-8 curve you get when you mark the position of the Sun at the same time each day for one year. But the trick to imaging an analemma of the Moon is to wait bit longer. On average the Moon returns to the same position in the sky about 50 minutes and 29 seconds later each day. So photograph the Moon 50 minutes 29 seconds later on successive days. Over one lunation or lunar month it will trace out an analemma-like curve as the Moon's actual position wanders due to its tilted and elliptical orbit. Since the featured image was taken over two months, it actually shows a double lunar analemma. Crescent lunar phases too thin and faint to capture around the New moon are missing. The two months the persistent astrophotographer chose were during a good stretch of weather during July and August, and the location was Kayseri, Turkey

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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by mfavret » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:17 am

Hello !
I'm french and I hope that you will excuse my poor English.
This picture reminds me the marks carved in an animal bone probably 32.000 years ago :
Blanchard.jpg
It was found at Abri Blanchard in France (Dordogne) and is now at the Musée d'Archeologie National (National Museum of Archeology), St-Germain en Laye near Paris. In 1964 the american archeologist Alexander Marshack studied it and conclued it was a representation of the lunar cycle during a six months period (there are marks both recto and verso). It was made during the Aurignacian culture.
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Curious3

Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by Curious3 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:22 am

Does this museum piece have a name or a catalog number? Can you indicate where to find more information about it? Thank you!

Regarding the featured photos of the moon, would you not expect the curves to be smoother if they were taken exactly at the described times?

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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by De58te » Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:59 am

I don't get it. The description says that the Moon returns to the same position in the sky 50 minutes and 29 later every day. So photographing it in that time table every day should result in a single image of many composite photos. Yet the Moon is in different positions in the sky. Once it is almost touching the horizon and then it is far above the horizon. I wouldn't think that is the same position of the sky.

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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by orin stepanek » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:19 pm

LunarAnalemma_Turksoy_1080_dates.jpg
Are all analemmas figure 8's?
831727_070615-cc-Sad-Cat-Thumb.jpg
Such a beautiful kitty
Blanchard.jpg
Very interesting bone Mfavret! I wonder if it was more of a stone for
keeping a record of some sort; or if indeed it was from watching the
location of the moon!?
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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:03 pm

Curious3 wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:22 am Does this museum piece have a name or a catalog number? Can you indicate where to find more information about it? Thank you!
https://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/oldest ... calendars/
Chris

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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:37 pm

De58te wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:59 am I don't get it. The description says that the Moon returns to the same position in the sky 50 minutes and 29 later every day. So photographing it in that time table every day should result in a single image of many composite photos. Yet the Moon is in different positions in the sky. Once it is almost touching the horizon and then it is far above the horizon. I wouldn't think that is the same position of the sky.
You and me both. I still don't quite understand how a solar analemma works, and now here we have a lunar analemma (would that be an analuna, or maybe lunalemma?). And all on my birthday, no less! (*) I thought the same thing you did: same position in sky = moon doesn't move. I also have to wonder what this would look like if, like a solar analemma, a picture of the moon was taken at exact 24 hour intervals. Would it not look almost the same?

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Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:40 pm

Curious3 wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:22 am Does this museum piece have a name or a catalog number? Can you indicate where to find more information about it? Thank you!

Regarding the featured photos of the moon, would you not expect the curves to be smoother if they were taken exactly at the described times?
Here's some more info:

https://archaeology.co.uk/articles/news ... otland.htm

https://www.cavescript.org/research/ast ... blanchard/
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andyg

Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by andyg » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:44 pm

Pretty sure the moon is at different elevations and positions because of the earth's tilt. You're looking at the moon throughout the night and day, in the summer, the moon is low at night but appears high during the day. I think.

Guest

FAKE (?) Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:28 pm

I think the featured analemma is a fake. The size of the Moon in the image is doubled or even tripled in respect the real size of the Moon. Please compare with this:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050713.html

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Re: FAKE (?) Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:47 pm

Guest wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:28 pm I think the featured analemma is a fake. The size of the Moon in the image is doubled or even tripled in respect the real size of the Moon. Please compare with this:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050713.html
Hmm. Not sure what to make of that. Hopefully Chris or someone else will comment.
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Re: FAKE (?) Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by alter-ego » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:37 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:47 pm
Guest wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:28 pm I think the featured analemma is a fake. The size of the Moon in the image is doubled or even tripled in respect the real size of the Moon. Please compare with this:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050713.html
Hmm. Not sure what to make of that. Hopefully Chris or someone else will comment.
The resultant image is a creative composite of a real wide-field lunar analemma and the individual lunar images taken with a 500mm telephoto.
Read the translated copy of Betul's facebook post: (I estimate the lunar images are 2.8x larger than those in the wide-field view.)
Did you know that October 1 is the international moon observing night?
When I started shooting the Moon analemma in early July, I did not expect to encounter such a curve. After shooting for the first 13 days, I decided to continue this study for 2 months, not 1. Thus, I would see more clearly how the shape was formed.
During July and August, I shot without interruption at the hours you will see in the next images. Just in time.. For example, on a day when I could not be at home, I set the camera to intermittent shooting and took the shot :)
It took me a few weeks to align the photos. After each photo, I also took the Moon as a single frame, with 500 mm. (I processed these photos in the result frame by reducing them by 90%, for clarity)
Actually, I could write a lot about this photo, but I think it took 10-15 minutes to even write this description :)
As a result, a “♾” sign appeared again.. But it is a slightly disproportionate infinity sign.. When we examine the moon analemma photos, we can see that each of them has a different “8” sign.. This gives me inspiration to take such photos again..
Lunar Analemma
02.06.2022/25.08.2022
Sony A7RII +Samyang 18mm x53 frame (Squares showing the Moon's location)
Nikon D7100 + Nikon 200-500mm x approx. 55/60 frames
Kayseri / Turkey
A pessimist is nothing more than an experienced optimist

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Re: FAKE (?) Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by johnnydeep » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:55 pm

alter-ego wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:37 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:47 pm
Guest wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:28 pm I think the featured analemma is a fake. The size of the Moon in the image is doubled or even tripled in respect the real size of the Moon. Please compare with this:
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050713.html
Hmm. Not sure what to make of that. Hopefully Chris or someone else will comment.
The resultant image is a creative composite of a real wide-field lunar analemma and the individual lunar images taken with a 500mm telephoto.
Read the translated copy of Betul's facebook post: (I estimate the lunar images are 2.8x larger than those in the wide-field view.)
Did you know that October 1 is the international moon observing night?
When I started shooting the Moon analemma in early July, I did not expect to encounter such a curve. After shooting for the first 13 days, I decided to continue this study for 2 months, not 1. Thus, I would see more clearly how the shape was formed.
During July and August, I shot without interruption at the hours you will see in the next images. Just in time.. For example, on a day when I could not be at home, I set the camera to intermittent shooting and took the shot :)
It took me a few weeks to align the photos. After each photo, I also took the Moon as a single frame, with 500 mm. (I processed these photos in the result frame by reducing them by 90%, for clarity)
Actually, I could write a lot about this photo, but I think it took 10-15 minutes to even write this description :)
As a result, a “♾” sign appeared again.. But it is a slightly disproportionate infinity sign.. When we examine the moon analemma photos, we can see that each of them has a different “8” sign.. This gives me inspiration to take such photos again..
Lunar Analemma
02.06.2022/25.08.2022
Sony A7RII +Samyang 18mm x53 frame (Squares showing the Moon's location)
Nikon D7100 + Nikon 200-500mm x approx. 55/60 frames
Kayseri / Turkey
Perfect, thanks. Even the long translated explanation isn't particularly clear about what was done but your one sentence gloss was. So, the overall shape and angular extent of the lunar analemma against the sky was faithfully reproduced, but each image of the moon shown was taken separately at the same time with a zoom lens and overlaid at the corresponding position of the much smaller moon on the lunar analemma path.
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"To B̬̻̋̚o̞̮̚̚l̘̲̀᷾d̫͓᷅ͩḷ̯᷁ͮȳ͙᷊͠ Go......Beyond The F͇̤i̙̖e̤̟l̡͓d͈̹s̙͚ We Know."

Guest

Re: FAKE (?) Re: APOD: A Double Lunar Analemma over Turkey (2022 Oct 10)

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:33 am

This should be stated ALWAYS when a photo is a composite. In my opinion composite photos should be treated as an "artist impression".
johnnydeep wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:55 pm
alter-ego wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:37 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:47 pm

Hmm. Not sure what to make of that. Hopefully Chris or someone else will comment.
The resultant image is a creative composite of a real wide-field lunar analemma and the individual lunar images taken with a 500mm telephoto.
Read the translated copy of Betul's facebook post: (I estimate the lunar images are 2.8x larger than those in the wide-field view.)
Did you know that October 1 is the international moon observing night?
When I started shooting the Moon analemma in early July, I did not expect to encounter such a curve. After shooting for the first 13 days, I decided to continue this study for 2 months, not 1. Thus, I would see more clearly how the shape was formed.
During July and August, I shot without interruption at the hours you will see in the next images. Just in time.. For example, on a day when I could not be at home, I set the camera to intermittent shooting and took the shot :)
It took me a few weeks to align the photos. After each photo, I also took the Moon as a single frame, with 500 mm. (I processed these photos in the result frame by reducing them by 90%, for clarity)
Actually, I could write a lot about this photo, but I think it took 10-15 minutes to even write this description :)
As a result, a “♾” sign appeared again.. But it is a slightly disproportionate infinity sign.. When we examine the moon analemma photos, we can see that each of them has a different “8” sign.. This gives me inspiration to take such photos again..
Lunar Analemma
02.06.2022/25.08.2022
Sony A7RII +Samyang 18mm x53 frame (Squares showing the Moon's location)
Nikon D7100 + Nikon 200-500mm x approx. 55/60 frames
Kayseri / Turkey
Perfect, thanks. Even the long translated explanation isn't particularly clear about what was done but your one sentence gloss was. So, the overall shape and angular extent of the lunar analemma against the sky was faithfully reproduced, but each image of the moon shown was taken separately at the same time with a zoom lens and overlaid at the corresponding position of the much smaller moon on the lunar analemma path.