APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

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APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by APOD Robot » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:07 am

Image Lunar Dust and Duct Tape

Explanation: Why is the Moon so dusty? On Earth, rocks are weathered by wind and water, creating soil and sand. On the Moon, the history of constant micrometeorite bombardment has blasted away at the rocky surface creating a layer of powdery lunar soil or regolith. For the Apollo astronauts and their equipment, the pervasive, fine, gritty dust was definitely a problem</a>. Fifty years ago, on the lunar surface in December 1972, Apollo 17 astronauts Harrison Schmitt and Eugene Cernan needed to repair one of their rover's fenders in an effort to keep the rooster tails of dust away from themselves and their gear. This picture reveals the wheel and fender of their dust covered rover along with the ingenious application of spare maps, clamps, and a grey strip of "duct tape".

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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:26 am

The chronicles of the time called it "American lead tape"

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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by wolfie138 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:00 am

yet there's no tyre tracks in the dust! COVER UP CONSPIRACY!!! :-D

Smuts

Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Smuts » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:00 am

Why are there no wheel track either in front or rear of the vehicle wheels? Just asking for a friend.

Sa Ji Tario

Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:06 pm

wolfie138 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:00 am yet there's no tyre tracks in the dust! COVER UP CONSPIRACY!!! :-D
They may have recently downloaded it and fixed it before circulating

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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:54 pm

Smuts wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:00 am Why are there no wheel track either in front or rear of the vehicle wheels? Just asking for a friend.
If you look through the many pictures from that mission with the rover, none seem to show tracks. I guess it doesn't normally make any. If you've seen videos you know that it kicked up a lot of dust. Maybe that filled in whatever tracks were being made.
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by orin stepanek » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:05 pm

AS17-137-20979_1024.jpg
Drive down a dusty or sandy road under extremely dry conditions;
bet there is no tracks! Besides look at how almost bald the tires are!
apollo_17_moon_landing_14_postlanding_pan_lmp_window_1_as17-147-22469.jpg
Reminds me of a scene from a n old SiFy movie
183731main_image_feature_881_ys_full.jpg
Dashing through the dust; O'er the Moon we go; laughing all the way! :mrgreen:
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:53 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:54 pm
Smuts wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:00 am Why are there no wheel track either in front or rear of the vehicle wheels? Just asking for a friend.
If you look through the many pictures from that mission with the rover, none seem to show tracks. I guess it doesn't normally make any. If you've seen videos you know that it kicked up a lot of dust. Maybe that filled in whatever tracks were being made.
That's pretty interesting about the lack of tracks. I never noticed that! But surely I would think that there should be a track visible very close to where a wheel just was? Especially if the rover was moving slowly. And it doesn't look like the wheels are even sinking into the regolith very much either.
Last edited by johnnydeep on Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:57 pm

The "previous" APOD link on this page (https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap221214.html) points to itself. Also, the "discuss" link is confused. Reloading the browser page didn't fix it for me.
Last edited by johnnydeep on Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Markus Schwarz » Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:49 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:53 pm That's pretty interesting about the lack of tracks. I never notices that! But surely I would think that there should be a track visible very close to where a wheel just was? Especially if the rover was moving slowly. And it doesn't look like the wheels are even sinking into the regolith very much either.
599px-Moon_Buggy_Ap16-KSC-71PC-777.jpg
This image from the Wikipedia page shows the Moon Rover on Earth in some desert. Interestingly, there are "deeper" tracks between the wheels than behind it. The same effect seems to be present on the moon, where tracks are visible between the wheels:
480px-NASA_Apollo_17_Lunar_Roving_Vehicle.jpg
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by De58te » Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:53 pm

Re why can't you see the tyre track. First the Moon's gravity is only 1\6th the Earth. The tyres are mesh balloon tires designed to spread weight over a large area compared to the astronauts boots. The lunar buggy was designed to be light and not sink deep into the soft ground. Now there was a lot of dust kicked up as they were twisting around fixing this darn thing. Because there is no wind on the Moon the dust that is kicked up falls down in the direction the momentum of the astronauts propel it. Take a look at the extreme bottom left frame. There is a neat footprint almost fresh like it was sculpted flat. However farther over to the center right there is another footprint that is half covered up by scattered dust. This shows that in just a few minutes the dust they kicked up falls back down and covers up older tracks. The oldest track of them all was the tyre track that they parked in that location.

lefthip

Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by lefthip » Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:18 pm

Re: the tracks
If one looks carefully behind that rear wheel, the remains of a track can be seen. The remainder would have been erased by the struggling astronauts trying to fix their vehicle.

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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:23 pm

lefthip wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:18 pm Re: the tracks
If one looks carefully behind that rear wheel, the remains of a track can be seen. The remainder would have been erased by the struggling astronauts trying to fix their vehicle.
Maybe, but I don't think the tracks were obliterated by the astronauts. I think the dynamics of the regolith and the nature of the tires largely prevents tracks from forming in the first place.
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Guest » Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:07 pm

One thing no one seems to mention is it looks like they had to do a repair on the backrest of the right seat position. looks like some duct tape used there too

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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:10 pm

Guest wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:07 pm One thing no one seems to mention is it looks like they had to do a repair on the backrest of the right seat position. looks like some duct tape used there too
Hmm. There does seem to be something strange going on there, but I don't really see a repair attempt. One side of the frankly flimsy beach chair looking backrest looks like it might be broken?

lunar rover backrest strangeness.png
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:22 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:10 pm
Guest wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:07 pm One thing no one seems to mention is it looks like they had to do a repair on the backrest of the right seat position. looks like some duct tape used there too
Hmm. There does seem to be something strange going on there, but I don't really see a repair attempt. One side of the frankly flimsy beach chair looking backrest looks like it might be broken?


lunar rover backrest strangeness.png
No, that's the way the seat is supposed to be.
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bfa4e865d66df5f7d535d5d28cdb4851.jpg
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:33 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:22 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:10 pm
Guest wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:07 pm One thing no one seems to mention is it looks like they had to do a repair on the backrest of the right seat position. looks like some duct tape used there too
Hmm. There does seem to be something strange going on there, but I don't really see a repair attempt. One side of the frankly flimsy beach chair looking backrest looks like it might be broken?


lunar rover backrest strangeness.png
No, that's the way the seat is supposed to be.
_
bfa4e865d66df5f7d535d5d28cdb4851.jpg
Ok, thanks. It still looks pretty flimsy though :-)
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Chris Peterson » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:43 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:33 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:22 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:10 pm

Hmm. There does seem to be something strange going on there, but I don't really see a repair attempt. One side of the frankly flimsy beach chair looking backrest looks like it might be broken?


lunar rover backrest strangeness.png
No, that's the way the seat is supposed to be.
_
bfa4e865d66df5f7d535d5d28cdb4851.jpg
Ok, thanks. It still looks pretty flimsy though :-)
It had to be very light! An interesting engineering problem dealing with things that were carrying low weight (because of the low lunar gravity) but still had to deal with the high mass of the suited astronauts in a bouncy contraption.
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:50 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:43 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:33 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:22 pm
No, that's the way the seat is supposed to be.
_
bfa4e865d66df5f7d535d5d28cdb4851.jpg
Ok, thanks. It still looks pretty flimsy though :-)
It had to be very light! An interesting engineering problem dealing with things that were carrying low weight (because of the low lunar gravity) but still had to deal with the high mass of the suited astronauts in a bouncy contraption.
And also I suppose, needing to handle the still large forces that can be exerted by a fit human astronaut with adrenaline pumping!
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Fred the Cat » Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:39 pm

Next generation lunar rovers are proposed to be duct tape free.

Though some of the planning still require basic materials. Give them a try. :thumb_up:
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by johnnydeep » Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:45 pm

Fred the Cat wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:39 pm Next generation lunar rovers are proposed to be duct tape free.

Though some of the planning still require basic materials. Give them a try. :thumb_up:
Unless they offer Apple CarPlay, that's a hard pass for me! :ssmile:
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Fred the Cat » Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:14 am

johnnydeep wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:45 pm
Fred the Cat wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:39 pm Next generation lunar rovers are proposed to be duct tape free.

Though some of the planning still require basic materials. Give them a try. :thumb_up:
Unless they offer Apple CarPlay, that's a hard pass for me!
Bojo was curious about “Robby the Robot” but we’d willing to submit our contribution towards lunar robotic exploration. Made from simple outdoor products, he’d do well in the cold.
IMG_5771 (2).JPG

Scooting through the dust may be the best way to avoid stirring up the regolith, but I’m afraid he’d contaminate the search for water. :bang:
IMG_5775 (2).JPG
At least they'd he see him coming. :wink:
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Re: APOD: Lunar Dust and Duct Tape (2022 Dec 14)

Post by Tom Glenn » Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:50 am

Chris Peterson wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:23 pm Maybe, but I don't think the tracks were obliterated by the astronauts. I think the dynamics of the regolith and the nature of the tires largely prevents tracks from forming in the first place.
Interestingly, tracks from the Apollo 15 mission can clearly be observed in LROC images. The article does mention that they are not easy to image. It is likely that different locations on the lunar surface show varying susceptibility to track impressions.