APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

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APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by APOD Robot » Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:06 am

Image Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction

Explanation: About 12 seconds into this video, something unusual happens. The Earth begins to rise. Never seen by humans before, the rise of the Earth over the limb of the Moon occurred about 55.5 years ago and surprised and amazed the crew of Apollo 8. The crew immediately scrambled to take still images of the stunning vista caused by Apollo 8's orbit around the Moon. The featured video is a modern reconstruction of the event as it would have looked were it recorded with a modern movie camera. The colorful orb of our Earth stood out as a familiar icon rising above a distant and unfamiliar moonscape, the whole scene the conceptual reverse of a more familiar moonrise as seen from Earth. To many, the scene also spoke about the unity of humanity: that big blue marble -- that's us -- we all live there. The two-minute video is not time-lapse -- this is the real speed of the Earth rising through the windows of Apollo 8. Seven months and three missions later, Apollo 11 astronauts would not only circle Earth's moon, but land on it.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by userloser » Sun Jun 30, 2024 9:57 am

Great video, Mr. Kubrick, but I still like the opening scene of Dr. Strangelove better. :lol2:

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by AVAO » Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am

APOD Robot wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:06 am
...The featured video is a modern reconstruction of the event as it would have looked were it recorded with a modern movie camera. ...
Well, with all due respect to NASA Scientific Visualization Studio, the whole thing seems a bit synthetic to me, especially when I take a closer look at the earth's surface.
compare: https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/spac ... from-space

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
original colored and black&white

Click to view full size image 1 or image 2
still from the animation versus original colored
jac berne (flickr)
Last edited by AVAO on Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Christian G. » Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:33 pm

Seeing Earth from space alongside Bach's music sums up quite well how far we've come since the time cyanobacteria ruled the planet!
(but - oh the heresy! - the video cuts out the last chord of that Bach piece!) (which can also be heard on Voyager's Golden Record)

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by shawnhcorey » Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:41 pm

The Earth doesn't rise over the Moon unless the camera is moving. The video shows the camera as stationary. Bad video.

The Moon is tidal lock to the Earth. That means the Earth's position is fixed at the same azimuth and zenith. To get the Earth to rise, the camera must be moving toward the Earth.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:52 pm

shawnhcorey wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:41 pm The Earth doesn't rise over the Moon unless the camera is moving. The video shows the camera as stationary. Bad video.

The Moon is tidal lock to the Earth. That means the Earth's position is fixed at the same azimuth and zenith. To get the Earth to rise, the camera must be moving toward the Earth.
The video does not show a stationary camera. It shows a camera in orbit around the Moon, with the lunar horizon fixed and the lunar landscape passing underneath as the Earth rises higher along the orbital path. There's nothing wrong.
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Syringa vulgaris » Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:30 pm

AVAO wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am Well, with all due respect to NASA Scientific Visualization Studio, the whole thing seems a bit synthetic to me.
Come on now, give our "AI" overlords some room for mild hallucinations.

They had to generate quite a lot of frames in between shots to make it look smooth, and they had to interpolate the surface under the spacecraft for the illusion of flight over the Moon. It ain't half bad.

I'm curious how well one can do it in Celestia.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by AVAO » Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:42 pm

Syringa vulgaris wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:30 pm
AVAO wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am Well, with all due respect to NASA Scientific Visualization Studio, the whole thing seems a bit synthetic to me.
Come on now, give our "AI" overlords some room for mild hallucinations.

They had to generate quite a lot of frames in between shots to make it look smooth, and they had to interpolate the surface under the spacecraft for the illusion of flight over the Moon. It ain't half bad.

I'm curious how well one can do it in Celestia.
OK, that's right - good craftsmanship in 2018 - and AI were probably not that advanced yet.

Unfortunately, the AI images of photorealistic pseudo-galaxies and colorful pseudo-nebulae, which have been generated thousands of times in social media today, lead to an unparalleled Babilonian image confusion. NASA unintentionally made its contribution to this with its false-color images - unfortunately.

But the main isuee is that we need to use AI to sort out all the data garbage generated by AI in the future!
...it should be mentioned in passing that both require huge amounts of energy and that the planet is going to the dogs thereby...
Last edited by AVAO on Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:47 pm

AVAO wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:42 pm
Syringa vulgaris wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:30 pm
AVAO wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:46 am Well, with all due respect to NASA Scientific Visualization Studio, the whole thing seems a bit synthetic to me.
Come on now, give our "AI" overlords some room for mild hallucinations.

They had to generate quite a lot of frames in between shots to make it look smooth, and they had to interpolate the surface under the spacecraft for the illusion of flight over the Moon. It ain't half bad.

I'm curious how well one can do it in Celestia.
OK, that's right - in 2018, good craftsmanship and AI were probably not that advanced yet.

Unfortunately, the AI images of photorealistic pseudo-galaxies and colorful pseudo-nebulae, which have been generated thousands of times in social media today, lead to an unparalleled Babilonian image confusion. NASA unintentionally made its contribution to this with its false-color images - unfortunately.

The main thing is that we use AI and sort out the data garbage generated by AI!
...it should be mentioned in passing that both require huge amounts of energy and that the planet is going to the dogs thereby...
It should also be noted that "AI" as the term is usually used is merely a subcategory of Machine Learning, which is now essential to all branches of scientific research (including astronomy).
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anally retentive

Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by anally retentive » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:19 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:47 pm
It should also be noted that "AI" as the term is usually used is merely a subcategory of Machine Learning, which is now essential to all branches of scientific research (including astronomy).
Technically, ML is a subcategory of AI, the one that used to be called "statistics" and is concerned with parameter estimation. It is a correct assessment that these days it is widely misused in all branches of scientific research.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by shaileshs » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:24 pm

shawnhcorey wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:41 pm The Earth doesn't rise over the Moon unless the camera is moving. The video shows the camera as stationary. Bad video.

The Moon is tidal lock to the Earth. That means the Earth's position is fixed at the same azimuth and zenith. To get the Earth to rise, the camera must be moving toward the Earth.
I'm a bit confused. If Moon rotates and if Moon and Earth revolve around each other (relatively), there'd be an "Earth-rise and Earth-set" everyday on Moon. No ? What am I missing ?

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:24 pm

anally retentive wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:19 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:47 pm
It should also be noted that "AI" as the term is usually used is merely a subcategory of Machine Learning, which is now essential to all branches of scientific research (including astronomy).
Technically, ML is a subcategory of AI, the one that used to be called "statistics" and is concerned with parameter estimation. It is a correct assessment that these days it is widely misused in all branches of scientific research.
No. Like I said, AI, as the term is usually used, is a subcategory of ML. In the popular press that most people see, "AI" as a narrow part of ML that basically consists of language-based models and generative AI.
Last edited by Chris Peterson on Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:26 pm

shaileshs wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:24 pm
shawnhcorey wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:41 pm The Earth doesn't rise over the Moon unless the camera is moving. The video shows the camera as stationary. Bad video.

The Moon is tidal lock to the Earth. That means the Earth's position is fixed at the same azimuth and zenith. To get the Earth to rise, the camera must be moving toward the Earth.
I'm a bit confused. If Moon rotates and if Moon and Earth revolve around each other (relatively), there'd be an "Earth-rise and Earth-set" everyday on Moon. No ? What am I missing ?
From any given position on the Moon the position of the Earth in the sky is largely fixed (with some variation caused by libration).
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by AVAO » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:43 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:47 pm
AVAO wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 2:42 pm
Syringa vulgaris wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:30 pm

Come on now, give our "AI" overlords some room for mild hallucinations.

They had to generate quite a lot of frames in between shots to make it look smooth, and they had to interpolate the surface under the spacecraft for the illusion of flight over the Moon. It ain't half bad.

I'm curious how well one can do it in Celestia.
OK, that's right - in 2018, good craftsmanship and AI were probably not that advanced yet.

Unfortunately, the AI images of photorealistic pseudo-galaxies and colorful pseudo-nebulae, which have been generated thousands of times in social media today, lead to an unparalleled Babilonian image confusion. NASA unintentionally made its contribution to this with its false-color images - unfortunately.

The main thing is that we use AI and sort out the data garbage generated by AI!
...it should be mentioned in passing that both require huge amounts of energy and that the planet is going to the dogs thereby...
It should also be noted that "AI" as the term is usually used is merely a subcategory of Machine Learning, which is now essential to all branches of scientific research (including astronomy).
ThanX Chris. That's right. My criticism was not directed at AI or machine learning in general. I use AI practically every day and I think it's a good thing. But what really makes me angry is that almost all scientific news channels now use AI-generated images, and it's often NOT transparent that they were generated by AI.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by shaileshs » Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:44 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:26 pm
shaileshs wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:24 pm
shawnhcorey wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:41 pm The Earth doesn't rise over the Moon unless the camera is moving. The video shows the camera as stationary. Bad video.

The Moon is tidal lock to the Earth. That means the Earth's position is fixed at the same azimuth and zenith. To get the Earth to rise, the camera must be moving toward the Earth.
I'm a bit confused. If Moon rotates and if Moon and Earth revolve around each other (relatively), there'd be an "Earth-rise and Earth-set" everyday on Moon. No ? What am I missing ?
From any given position on the Moon the position of the Earth in the sky is largely fixed (with some variation caused by libration).
Thanks Chris,
I also read this article - https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/St ... ion58.html

Sa Ji Tario

Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Sa Ji Tario » Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:14 pm

There are dissenters who look for errors and feel satisfied when they find them (possibly even saying that the Earth is flat) and that is why they feel proud to comment. Let's ignore

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by NateWhilk » Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:47 pm

Christian G. wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:33 pm(but - oh the heresy! - the video cuts out the last chord of that Bach piece!) (which can also be heard on Voyager's Golden Record)
Not heresy, but MAJOR cringe! I think that would produce the same effect for ANY song on fans of that song's genre.

I assume that was accidental and a result of the Youtube upload process.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Cousin Ricky » Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:34 am

Christian G. wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:33 pm(but - oh the heresy! - the video cuts out the last chord of that Bach piece!) (which can also be heard on Voyager's Golden Record)
I came here just to say this!
NateWhilk wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:47 pm Not heresy, but MAJOR cringe! I think that would produce the same effect for ANY song on fans of that song's genre.

I assume that was accidental and a result of the Youtube upload process.
I’ve noticed that YouTube videos are always 1 second shorter than the time displayed in the thumbnail. I wonder 1) why YouTube has not fixed this after nearly 20 years and, now, 2) whether this indeed does cut a second off the end of the video.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by hypermetabolic » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:14 am

Arthur Sullivan in the song - The Lost Chord - says it all "It may be that Death's bright Angel, Will speak in that chord again; It may be that only in Heav'n, I shall hear that grand AMEN"

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Ann » Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:19 am

My computer was acting up yesterday, and I dislike using my mobile phone to comment on Starship Asterisk*, so I decided not to even try to comment. But I have a stupid amateur question. If the Earth was seen rising over the Moon, shouldn't the Earth also be seen to slowly rotate?

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:59 pm

Ann wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:19 am My computer was acting up yesterday, and I dislike using my mobile phone to comment on Starship Asterisk*, so I decided not to even try to comment. But I have a stupid amateur question. If the Earth was seen rising over the Moon, shouldn't the Earth also be seen to slowly rotate?
Well, yes, the Earth is rotating. But how much in just two minutes?
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:09 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:59 pm
Ann wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:19 am My computer was acting up yesterday, and I dislike using my mobile phone to comment on Starship Asterisk*, so I decided not to even try to comment. But I have a stupid amateur question. If the Earth was seen rising over the Moon, shouldn't the Earth also be seen to slowly rotate?
Well, yes, the Earth is rotating. But how much in just two minutes?
About 0.5° apparently, so not much!
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Chris Peterson » Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:16 pm

johnnydeep wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:09 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:59 pm
Ann wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:19 am My computer was acting up yesterday, and I dislike using my mobile phone to comment on Starship Asterisk*, so I decided not to even try to comment. But I have a stupid amateur question. If the Earth was seen rising over the Moon, shouldn't the Earth also be seen to slowly rotate?
Well, yes, the Earth is rotating. But how much in just two minutes?
About 0.5° apparently, so not much!
Spoiler! I was giving our math challenged friend an opportunity to work that out.
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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by Ann » Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:38 pm

Chris Peterson wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:16 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:09 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 12:59 pm

Well, yes, the Earth is rotating. But how much in just two minutes?
About 0.5° apparently, so not much!
Spoiler! I was giving our math challenged friend an opportunity to work that out.
Yeah, thanks... But thank you, Johnny, for working it out for me.

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Re: APOD: Earthrise: A Video Reconstruction (2024 Jun 30)

Post by johnnydeep » Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:17 pm

Ann wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:38 pm
Chris Peterson wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:16 pm
johnnydeep wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:09 pm

About 0.5° apparently, so not much!
Spoiler! I was giving our math challenged friend an opportunity to work that out.
Yeah, thanks... But thank you, Johnny, for working it out for me.

Ann
And quite coincidentally, I'm sure, 0.5° is almost exactly how "wide" the Moon appears in Earth's skies! (PS - I suspect Ann is not nearly so "math challenged" as she claims.)
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